Author Topic: How much crowd control ruins the game's fun?  (Read 9211 times)

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Surreal

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Re: How much crowd control ruins the game's fun?
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2010, 01:52:26 AM »
Though by the time MDJ kicks in you're basically playing rocket tag anyways...
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Re: How much crowd control ruins the game's fun?
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2010, 06:29:12 PM »
It's not a fail-- you use your tower shield (on which the runes are written) as cover from the Explosive Runes effect.  You write the runes in very large font so you can read them from very far away- so whoever is within 20 feet or so ("close enough to read them") takes 6d6 force damage with no saving throw, and anyone 10 feet in front of the fighter takes 6d6 force damage with a reflex save for half.  This is harder to do on armor and helmets, so we used Symbols of Pain, Fear, etc instead.  It's cheesy, but it works.  We only did that one time while wading into an enemy army to eliminate one specific noble. 

AMF and MDJ are extremely annoying, especially when MDJ permanently disables your magic items.  It's fun to strip the BBEG's buffs, though. 

Sunic_Flames

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Re: How much crowd control ruins the game's fun?
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2010, 06:47:35 PM »
It's not a fail-- you use your tower shield (on which the runes are written) as cover from the Explosive Runes effect.  You write the runes in very large font so you can read them from very far away- so whoever is within 20 feet or so ("close enough to read them") takes 6d6 force damage with no saving throw, and anyone 10 feet in front of the fighter takes 6d6 force damage with a reflex save for half.  This is harder to do on armor and helmets, so we used Symbols of Pain, Fear, etc instead.  It's cheesy, but it works.  We only did that one time while wading into an enemy army to eliminate one specific noble.  

AMF and MDJ are extremely annoying, especially when MDJ permanently disables your magic items.  It's fun to strip the BBEG's buffs, though.  

Here are the reasons why that idea doesn't work. Like, at all.

Quote
Explosive Runes
Abjuration [Force]
Level:    Sor/Wiz 3
Components:    V, S
Casting Time:    1 standard action
Range:    Touch
Target:    One touched object weighing no more than 10 lb. (1)
Duration:    Permanent until discharged (D)
Saving Throw:    See text
Spell Resistance:    Yes

You trace these mystic runes upon a book, map, scroll, or similar object bearing written information. The runes detonate when read, dealing 6d6 points of force damage. Anyone next to the runes (close enough to read them) takes the full damage with no saving throw; any other creature within 10 feet of the runes is entitled to a Reflex save for half damage. The object on which the runes were written also takes full damage (no saving throw). (2)

You and any characters you specifically instruct can read the protected writing without triggering the runes. Likewise, you can remove the runes whenever desired. Another creature can remove them with a successful dispel magic or erase spell, but attempting to dispel or erase the runes and failing to do so triggers the explosion.

Note: Magic traps such as explosive runes are hard to detect and disable. A rogue (only) can use the Search skill to find the runes and Disable Device to thwart them. The DC in each case is 25 + spell level, or 28 for explosive runes.

Quote from: (1)
45 lb.

Quote from: (2)

Conclusion: You cannot put Explosive Runes on a Tower Shield. If you could you would blow it up after a few shots, even if heavily enchanted.
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strider24seven

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Re: How much crowd control ruins the game's fun?
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2010, 06:50:43 PM »
Oh shit.
5 players and 2 DM's went through 2 campaigns without ever noticing that.

Nice. 

Lycanthromancer

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Re: How much crowd control ruins the game's fun?
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2010, 08:35:41 PM »
Oh shit.
5 players and 2 DM's went through 2 campaigns without ever noticing that.

Nice. 
Write it on a sheet of parchment that you glue to your shield. The paper is destroyed, the shield gets a save.
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strider24seven

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Re: How much crowd control ruins the game's fun?
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2010, 10:34:01 PM »
Oh shit.
5 players and 2 DM's went through 2 campaigns without ever noticing that.

Nice. 
Write it on a sheet of parchment that you glue to your shield. The paper is destroyed, the shield gets a save.

But that's still 3d6 damage.  With Dwarvencraft Quality and +5 Enhancement, it's still taking damage.  I'd rather not destroy my shield for a little damage.

Bozwevial

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Re: How much crowd control ruins the game's fun?
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2010, 11:40:15 PM »
Oh shit.
5 players and 2 DM's went through 2 campaigns without ever noticing that.

Nice. 
Write it on a sheet of parchment that you glue to your shield. The paper is destroyed, the shield gets a save.

But that's still 3d6 damage.  With Dwarvencraft Quality and +5 Enhancement, it's still taking damage.  I'd rather not destroy my shield for a little damage.
How many mundane tower shields could you buy for the price of one +5 tower shield? :P

juton

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Re: How much crowd control ruins the game's fun?
« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2010, 01:25:54 AM »
Mending is a cantrip, make whole is a 2nd level spell. Dealing with damage to weapons and armour is not a problem for casters.

Nanshork

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Re: How much crowd control ruins the game's fun?
« Reply #48 on: October 28, 2010, 03:32:53 AM »
Mending is a cantrip, make whole is a 2nd level spell. Dealing with damage to weapons and armour is not a problem for casters.

If you break your +5 tower shield and cast Make Whole, you now have a regular tower shield.
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Re: How much crowd control ruins the game's fun?
« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2010, 03:59:54 AM »
Let's agree that damaging your own equipment to deal 6d6 damage to an enemy isn't the best use of resources and move on, shall we?

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Gods_Trick

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Re: How much crowd control ruins the game's fun?
« Reply #50 on: October 28, 2010, 04:27:28 AM »

  I've ruined encounters just by adding a little battlefield control at low levels. Web and Grease apparently make BSF's redundant, though the archer loved me. But the majority of the party complained that when I play spellcasters the encounters weren't 'fun' anymore.  :banghead Ah well.

  The story about how the party almost got TPK'ed is battlefield control taken to absurd levels though. Readied actions, and the surprise round as well?! Kudos to your party for winning, but wow man, the setup for that fight was brutal.

The_Laughing_Man

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Re: How much crowd control ruins the game's fun?
« Reply #51 on: October 28, 2010, 04:56:21 AM »
We had an encounter with two big bad minions (don't remember what they were anymore, but anyway very overpowering ones for our level) which were guarding a portal in an enclosed space. We had no way out other than the portal, so a well placed sleetstorm really did the trick and saved our asses. So we were able to slip through the portal relatively unharmed.

Battlefield control is also about action economy because you can buy precious actions with that for your whole party.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: How much crowd control ruins the game's fun?
« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2010, 08:45:30 AM »
Just use Illusionary Script, like I said.
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There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]