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Author Topic: What are some good spells vs. burrowing creatures? 2 ecl5 vs 3 umber hulks-el10?  (Read 2591 times)
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Gavinfoxx
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« on: October 22, 2010, 04:29:49 AM »

Hi there, I'm wondering what some good spell options (as low level as possible...) there are that 'shut down' slow, burrowing melee focused creatures.  I'm trying to figure out options that make them a.) Come to the surface, b.) Stay there c.) Lock them down at the surface so we can kite them or attack them from a distance.

So far I've figured out using groundsmoke, some smokestick variants, and an air elemental to smoke them out from their burrow, but I'm not 100% sure that will work, and I would like some other ways that encourage burrowing creatures to come to the surface and STAY there.  Especially big strong types!

Or, alternately, low level spells that 'solve' big high hit point tanky creatures with a low reflex save, too...

Any ideas?

Also, I guess I do want to know what some of the specialized battlefield control spells that work against things with weird or obscure movement options are, too..

EDIT: I put more details in the replies.  Lots of clarification! This is an encounter that is meant to challenge my optimization and tactical fu...
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 05:24:55 AM by Gavinfoxx » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2010, 04:32:56 AM »

Web
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Gavinfoxx
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« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2010, 04:34:36 AM »

The problem with web is that, even if they fail their save and entangled, they can move slowly... but they could *move slowly straight down* and thereby out of the web... and then come up outside the web.

These are intelligent burrowers, by the way...
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saethone
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« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2010, 04:58:52 AM »

create water + transmute mud to rock?
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Gavinfoxx
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« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2010, 05:11:36 AM »

That's a good idea!  *Checks* oh wait, Umber hulks can burrow through rock.  We would need Walls of Iron below them or something.

FYI, this is for a level 5 Druid and a level 5 Artificer, going up against three umber hulks that don't want to come out of their cave.  I ran that through the encounter calculator thing, and that's an EL 10 encounter, considered 'unbeatable'.

We've already figured out how to deny them the ability to hurt us (ie, fly or float, be at an altitude of about 70 or 80 feet), we just need to pull them, then hold them, while we blow them to bits.
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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2010, 05:16:43 AM »

Brick up the cave and decanter of endless water them?  They'll have to leave if they don't want to drown.
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Gavinfoxx
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« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2010, 05:19:26 AM »

The main thing I want to prevent is the whole,

1. We send smoke that is groundsmoked and stinky in with a smoke or air elemental or some wind effects directing it

2. They pop outward

3. We web / entangle / etc. them, and begin to deal ranged damage to them.  They fail their saves, and can move really slowly, being entangled and stuff.

4. They just see that they can't affect us, cause we are out of their range, and being intelligent creatures, burrow DOWNWARD, and away from where the smoke is going, and out (ie, under) of the area of effect of the spells

5.  They pop up way out of the area of the smoke and the spells, and then burrow again elsewhere, fleeing the encounter

--STALEMATE--
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 05:22:18 AM by Gavinfoxx » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2010, 06:46:37 AM »

Initial thoughts without looking up the monsters:

They're big bruisers, that probably means low Int. Depending on how low it is, ray of stupidity could shut them down.

Probably low Dex, too, so shivering touch could work some wonders.

They probably have too many HD for a deep slumber to work, and you don't have hold monster yet

Using oneshot items is almost cheating, but a 2275gp scroll of reverse gravity would pretty much be a "no save, just lose".

If luring them into ghoul glyphs is possible, I'm sure the few rounds of paralysis would easily win you the fight.

Shrink item some big iron plates and lay them down on the ground. Command them to expand when needed.
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veekie
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« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2010, 08:05:16 AM »

Cloudkill?
It descends to the lowest level.
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LordBlades
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« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2010, 08:14:42 AM »

Can Umber Hulks burrow through worked stone(I'm away from books atm and surprisingly umber hulks are not in the SRD)? Because if they can't. Fabricate might be worth a shot: make the floor of the cave into worked stone(or at least part of it, 9 10 ft. cubes at minimum CL for a scroll).
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Epimetheus
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« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2010, 09:01:54 AM »

Wait, wait. This is the group (druid and artificer) that want to shut down the polluting metropolis?

I laugh...

Anyway, shouldn't any Earthquake-type spell work? I don't know though.
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jameswilliamogle
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« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2010, 03:55:21 PM »

Summon a Thoqua or two (dozen) and let them go to town.
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Gavinfoxx
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« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2010, 05:14:22 PM »

The polluting metropolis is a LONG TERM plan!  We seem to be levelling every week or so, thats why! Neither character even knows of anything on that continent! We'd only be able to, you know, look up 'what is the name of the most polluting city on toril' when we get some really awesome high end divination spells.

This is a SHORT TERM plan!  We couldn't do anything to a metropolis now... we aren't even on the right continent, silly! Wink
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 05:38:07 PM by Gavinfoxx » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2010, 06:24:29 PM »

A big sheet with an Illusory Script on it. Use a Suggestion like "Get in the cage". Then bring a big cage (shrunken via Shrink Item for convenient travel), and open it before unfolding your sheet and banging on a drum or something to call them out.
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

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« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2010, 07:57:23 PM »

Scalding Mud was my first thought, but it's a lvl6 spell... Could always Alter Self into an Asabi (MoF15, burrow20) and chase after them?

How about an illusion of a cute female umber hulk in a red dress?   Laugh
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Epimetheus
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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2010, 08:19:32 PM »

Illusory Script only works if the things attempt to read the script; while intelligent, I don't know if these umber hulks can read.
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Gavinfoxx
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« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2010, 08:27:36 PM »

Even if it was in Terran? Can they read Terran??
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« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2010, 09:54:31 PM »

Lure hulk out. Druid casts binding winds (drd 2, SpC), duration concentration. Artificer blasts away (or shoots hulk dead with personal-weapon-augmentation aberration-bane crossbow). Another spell to look at is Ice lance (6d6+stun for 1d4 rounds) (lvl 3, SpC).
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Epimetheus
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« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2010, 10:35:08 PM »

Yes, if stunning works, then that's the way to go. Eventually the save or die will lead to a 'just die' situation, although it may take a few statemates to eventually win.
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jameswilliamogle
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« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2010, 11:11:26 PM »

Solution is to utilize city kill technique.  Is simple.
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