Introducing Hi Welcome or shoving it to beatsticks at every level.

[McPoyo]

There's an entry somewhere that lists druids and rangers from certain areas of Eberron specifically gaining Magebred versions at higher levels. I think it's in Five Nations?

Yeah, that's what Sunic's using, but unless there's a different one, it lists 2 specific options. Sunic here is extrapolating that to mean the previous rule is no longer valid despite D&D being constructed entirely from exceptions, and is now calling anyone who disagrees a fucktard, a portmanteau which was funny once, maybe twice, but has long since lost any semblance of either humor or effectiveness (kinda like saying things are made of fail). Since formerly-eloquent profanity is basically his entire argument, I don't really think there's anywhere to go.

I didn't read most of page two, so I don't doubt I missed that.

[Sunic_Flames]

There's an entry somewhere that lists druids and rangers from certain areas of Eberron specifically gaining Magebred versions at higher levels. I think it's in Five Nations?

Yeah, that's what Sunic's using, but unless there's a different one, it lists 2 specific options. Sunic here is extrapolating that to mean the previous rule is no longer valid despite D&D being constructed entirely from exceptions, and is now calling anyone who disagrees a fucktard, a portmanteau which was funny once, maybe twice, but has long since lost any semblance of either humor or effectiveness (kinda like saying things are made of fail). Since formerly-eloquent profanity is basically his entire argument, I don't really think there's anywhere to go.

I'm not calling people who disagrees a fucktard. I'm calling people to show up merely to say herp derp thread fails a fucktard. Big difference. And D&D is also full of stealth errata. See: Almost anything in Complete Warrior, most stuff pertaining to armored spellcasting, among other examples.

I also remind you again that the stealth errata, and indeed most of the sources and details here in support of it were not originally pointed out by me.

[Bauglir]

There's an entry somewhere that lists druids and rangers from certain areas of Eberron specifically gaining Magebred versions at higher levels. I think it's in Five Nations?

Yeah, that's what Sunic's using, but unless there's a different one, it lists 2 specific options. Sunic here is extrapolating that to mean the previous rule is no longer valid despite D&D being constructed entirely from exceptions, and is now calling anyone who disagrees a fucktard, a portmanteau which was funny once, maybe twice, but has long since lost any semblance of either humor or effectiveness (kinda like saying things are made of fail). Since formerly-eloquent profanity is basically his entire argument, I don't really think there's anywhere to go.

I'm not calling people who disagrees a fucktard. I'm calling people to show up merely to say herp derp thread fails a fucktard. Big difference. And D&D is also full of stealth errata. See: Almost anything in Complete Warrior, most stuff pertaining to armored spellcasting, among other examples.

I also remind you again that the stealth errata, and indeed most of the sources and details here in support of it were not originally pointed out by me.

Stealth errata's pretty prevalent, but it's always called out as such (such as Quicken being a Swift action). If it doesn't say the old rule is gone, the old rule is still there and the new rule is just an exception; in this case, you can have 2 specific magebred animal companions. And on the topic of calling anyone who disagrees a fucktard, that's MOSTLY with regards to the "Skip Smokes Crack" bullshit. He can't override the rules, but the FAQ is RAW when it comes to clarifying things, and apparently whether or not animal companions gain sizes needed clarifying. You don't like it, fine, but your change is a houserule (if an arguably reasonable one). Deal with it.

[Vistella]

but the FAQ is RAW when it comes to clarifying things,

if that would be true then how comes that the exact same question can get two or mroe totally differant answers?

[Bauglir]

but the FAQ is RAW when it comes to clarifying things,

if that would be true then how comes that the exact same question can get two or mroe totally differant answers?

In the FAQ, it usually doesn't. Where the FAQ is inconsistent is when compared to the actual rules (in which case the actual rules take precedence), CustServ (in which case the FAQ takes precedence; keep in mind that CustServ's reputation for inconsistency with itself IS well-deserved), or with the power level it advocates within a game (which fluctuates wildly, even under the flawed assumption of "Fighters are awesome and Wizards are all evokers"). I'm not saying the FAQ's rulings are GOOD, I'm saying they're the rules we have to work with.

[Sunic_Flames]

but the FAQ is RAW when it comes to clarifying things,

if that would be true then how comes that the exact same question can get two or mroe totally differant answers?

Because the reason why Skip Williams is mocked so blithely is because his rulings aren't any better than any other random guy's take on RAI, and worse than most.

[Bauglir]

but the FAQ is RAW when it comes to clarifying things,

if that would be true then how comes that the exact same question can get two or mroe totally differant answers?

Because the reason why Skip Williams is mocked so blithely is because his rulings aren't any better than any other random guy's take on RAI, and worse than most.

Completely agreed. He just somehow ended up with actual authority. There is no known reason for this.

[Sunic_Flames]

but the FAQ is RAW when it comes to clarifying things,

if that would be true then how comes that the exact same question can get two or mroe totally differant answers?

Because the reason why Skip Williams is mocked so blithely is because his rulings aren't any better than any other random guy's take on RAI, and worse than most.

Untrue. There is a very good reason why game designers prove consistently incompetent.

Completely agreed. He just somehow ended up with actual authority. There is no known reason for this.

[SorO_Lost]

This thread started because I was bored, and felt like smiting some imbeciles by illustrating exactly how and why Druids win at every level. In the process I had a good look at the Druid Handbook, the Bard Handbook, the Inspire Courage thread, and the Handle Animal thread among other sources. As a result this got far crazier than I was hoping for, completely annihilating the silly Fighter instead of merely stomping on his head.

Every one here (or better be everyone *looks*) knows a druid is better than a fighter. I suppose bitching about something we can all agree on it a wonderful way to relive stress without any of the forum drama ... Or not.

There have been exactly two points that came up against it.

First, that ACs do not grow in size despite HD gains. At first people said the PHB said it. ... Then someone said it was the MM. ... Then someone pointed out the FAQ and the Rules of the Game. Ordinarily this would be enough to stop the idea cold.

Post #2

If I remember correctly bonus HD is not the same as normal HD and thus you don't automatically advance to the next size category.  I believed this was addressed in the FAQ

Just saying

The ruling is at worst ambiguous. And I remind you Sir Fucktard that most of the nuh uhs, some other source says something else were brought up by other people. You know, people actually contributing to the idea instead of whining about it. So contribute usefully, or continue the herp derp. I got plenty of fire to aim at you, and I need target practice anyways.

I did contribute successfully. I pointed out bashing Skip is entirely the wrong way of validating anything so you would improve your post instead of building on a foundation of ignoring an author.

Oh and due to my outstanding courage, I have stood my ground on my views and I backed the FAQ while someone was putting him down. And others have seen my impressive will and have taken to standing up for what's right too. *beams*
I'm glad my text can keep a straight face better than I can.

Hey, did you see this before or after you quoted me?

However, Skip Smokes Crack (LSD doesn't have the same ring to it).

Yeah, always Crack. All the good drugs go unnoticed
Crack is an idiom, can't really top that.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

"Hi Welcome" is ungrammatical and is still not sensical enough for a trashy internet meme. I wish people would stop with it. Even so comon people be civilized - this is the internet after all.

The way I know of size boosts to work is through true dragons, because they are special. Even then its an interpretation and should never allow temporary HD. But if you bother with that its supermount optimization.

Hence why we think the authors are doing crack.

"Comon Brian, everyone knows Nancy Pelosi's a crackhead but you have to take people there slowly so they come up with it on their own."

and wait how is crack an idiom soro? I confess I'm not up on my 'separating myself from reality' substances.

I suppose bitching about something we can all agree on it a wonderful way to relive stress without any of the forum drama ... Or not

if you had just said this, your responses would have contributed

[JaronK]

IIRC, doesn't the Monster Manual say that size increases from more HD represent animals born to be larger than others, so a smaller animal won't ever grow to be larger through advancement?  Instead, the "advancement" is what you do before the PCs even see the monster. 

Anyway, if the whole point of this was to "smite" people who think Fighters easily keep up with Druids, it's a lost cause since that argument was mostly resolved a long time ago.  It's like coming to a science forum to smite people who think space is full of aether. 

And frankly, even the critter in the OP isn't better than a well optimized beatstick anyway (sure, it hits hard and is good at tripping, but if you wanted to outdamage a well optimized beatstick you'd want a Fleshraker with Shock Trooper).  I think a strong charger (Lion Barbarian 1/whatever else as long as it has Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, and full BAB) would out damage it, and possibly so would a well made archer.  Not to mention "beatstick" now includes the ToB classes.  The Druid himself of course brings a lot more to the table.

JaronK

[Sunic_Flames]

"Hi Welcome" is ungrammatical and is still not sensical enough for a trashy internet meme. I wish people would stop with it. Even so comon people be civilized - this is the internet after all.

 

Edit: The fleshraker does 5d8+42 if everything hits without counting PA (+30) and Inspire Courage (+20, +25 on second round and later). Yeah, it's not huge compared to a uber charger. You need an average of 70 damage to take out an even level (6) foe on average. Which isn't hard to do at all given the sheer amount of leeway you have with 97-132 damage. Not counting the poison, trip, and grapple. And the free Druid.

And honestly, Shock Trooper only helps if you need to turn the to hit penalty into a not to hit penalty in order to hit. Your max attack penalty is -2 on iteratives compared to -5 and later -10 and -15 for the beatstick, and you have retard strength and a bard song. I don't think hitting is a problem. Now if you meant Leap Attack, that's a very good point given that you know, it has a Jump check on par with mother fucking Mario. But you didn't say that. And that isn't too workable without a feat spec. Which certainly is possible, and would improve the build but I think the point is made.

[Drull]

I dont know why, but after reading page 3 I got this mental image of a druid pushing a fleshraker into a hole, yelling "ITS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD" after him and coming back later to get his fleshraker with Iron will out of the hole. Why am I writing this? I have no idea...

But really, imagine the face of a fleshraker being pushed into a hole.... by his master.......   . I dont know why but I just find it hilarious  .


I'm probably just tired and need to go to bed. I might regret posting this in the morning  


Edit: Would there be a way to get craven onto the cuddly animal companion? With 4 attacks, it might beef up his damage somewhat...

[SorO_Lost]

and wait how is crack an idiom soro? I confess I'm not up on my 'separating myself from reality' substances.

What is the one drug everyone knows and accuses others of doing?

A. Crack.
B. Cocaine.
C. Marijuana.
D. Lysergic Acid Diethylamide (LSD).
E. Methylenedioxymethamphetamine.
F. Spice.

If you said...
A. Understand now?
B. Smartass.
C. We're not talking teenager films here.
D. See Sunic's comment, then A.
E. Wait, how do you know what this is?
F. Either you read too much Dune, or produce K2.

if you had just said this, your responses would have contributed

I never do things the easy way. Which is why I have a fire extinguisher next to the cereal boxes

[Psithief]

At least add a link to the image in your first post.
raptor pilots

[Eldariel]

So, how about adding Venomfire to the level 5 build? I mean, why not; hour/level uncapped Xd6 to every attack except that one that doesn't deal poison. Sure, you could add Ability Focus for poison DC or whatever.

[Sunic_Flames]

So, how about adding Venomfire to the level 5 build? I mean, why not; hour/level uncapped Xd6 to every attack except that one that doesn't deal poison. Sure, you could add Ability Focus for poison DC or whatever.

Well, 3 out of 5. And you certainly can, but it most likely wouldn't help achieve the goal here by virtue of it making people whine that it is just that spell that is overpowered. This thread was also designed to show potential with as few buffs as possible. It's a given if you start throwing around Divine Favor (yes, Druids CAN get this), Nature's Avatar, Bite of the Werebear, and all the other good buff spells to get various bonus types things get even crazier.

I dont know why, but after reading page 3 I got this mental image of a druid pushing a fleshraker into a hole, yelling "ITS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD" after him and coming back later to get his fleshraker with Iron will out of the hole. Why am I writing this? I have no idea...

But really, imagine the face of a fleshraker being pushed into a hole.... by his master.......  . I dont know why but I just find it hilarious  .


I'm probably just tired and need to go to bed. I might regret posting this in the morning 


Edit: Would there be a way to get craven onto the cuddly animal companion? With 4 attacks, it might beef up his damage somewhat...

 

Source on Craven?

[PhaedrusXY]

CScoundrel, IIRC. It requires sneak attack and adds+1/level to it. If you took Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance), you could get it, I think.

[Sunic_Flames]

CScoundrel, IIRC. It requires sneak attack and adds+1/level to it. If you took Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance), you could get it, I think.

Teaching an Int 2 creature martial maneuvers, while technically allowed is significantly more dodgy than anything assumed in the first post. It also costs 3 feats as stance requires study, doesn't it?

[PhaedrusXY]

CScoundrel, IIRC. It requires sneak attack and adds+1/level to it. If you took Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance), you could get it, I think.

Teaching an Int 2 creature martial maneuvers, while technically allowed is significantly more dodgy than anything assumed in the first post. It also costs 3 feats as stance requires study, doesn't it?

I don't know that it's more dodgy than adding templates to your already overpowered AC. Yeah, it requires Marital Study, or an item to grant a maneuver.