Author Topic: Martial Dragon Shaman idea  (Read 3059 times)

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archangel.arcanis

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Martial Dragon Shaman idea
« on: October 14, 2010, 12:57:47 PM »
Updated version of mods:

Changes to Dragon Shaman
1) Change Auras Known to Auras/Maneuvers Known. Add a note that you must pick at least one aura at first level a second aura by 10th level and a 3rd by 20th level. (this is to keep them from having more maneuvers ready than a Sword Sage who has the most out of all martial classes)
2) They gain full Initiator Level.
3) Change the table for Auras Known to begin with 5 and increase by 1 at every odd level beyond the first.
4) Add a column for stances known. It will grant them at levels 1, 9, and 17.
5) Alter Skill focus class feature so that any time it is granted they have the option of picking a stance instead of the skill focus feat. They must take skill focus at least one time when given the class feature. (preventing them from having the same number of stances as SS)
6) Manuevers and stances may be selected from the Breath of Fire School and 1 other of the Players choice, this school selection must occur at first level in the class.
7) All Maneuvers known will be readied at the beginning of combat. Used maneuvers will be re-readied after your breath weapon gained from this class has recharged or combat has ended. If an effect causes your breath weapon recharge to be 0 rounds your maneuvers will be readied on the following round at the beginning of your turn.


original post:
[spoiler]After pondering over this school of martial techniques I thought about granting Dragon Shaman's maneuvers. I'm looking for opinions on how this would work out. Here are my ideas:

1) When a DS  gains an aura they may choose to get a maneuver instead.
2) Continue the progression of gaining Auras with another granted each odd level and not capping at 7 at level 9. It would total to 12 by level 19.
3) When they would gain skill focus they may instead gain a stance from one of their schools. I find the skill focus a pretty useless class feature.
4) They can pick from the above linked school and 1 more based on dragon type selected.

Schools: (I'll need some help here)
Black- Shadow Hand
Blue- Stone Dragon
Brass- Shadow Hand
Bronze- Iron Heart
Copper- Stone Dragon
Gold- White Raven
Green- Tiger Claw
Red- Desert Wind
Silver- Devoted Spirit
White- Desert Wind (change any fire references to Cold)

Thoughts on those school alignments? How would you associate them? I'm trying to avoid too many home brew schools but if you know one that will fit one of these better link to it.

edit: Forgot to add that IL=DS lvl. Also what about just letting the player pick a 2nd school of their choice. It is a bit out of the norm for these types of classes, but really lets them create they type of shaman they want.[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 11:56:48 AM by archangel.arcanis »
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

SKRP

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Re: Martial Dragon Shaman idea
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2010, 02:58:39 PM »
Give them both auras and maneuvers. Suddenly Dragon Shamans would become more viable.

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Martial Dragon Shaman idea
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2010, 03:16:24 PM »
Well that was the plan. Rather than rewriting a ton of stuff I just let the auras and mans. come from the same pool and made it bigger. Though I could make the pool even bigger than it is and it still probably wouldn't be over powered at all.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

SKRP

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Re: Martial Dragon Shaman idea
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2010, 03:30:42 PM »
Well that was the plan. Rather than rewriting a ton of stuff I just let the auras and mans. come from the same pool and made it bigger. Though I could make the pool even bigger than it is and it still probably wouldn't be over powered at all.

Heck, it's only one discipline. This plus auras plus shamanic invocation alternate class feature will definitely make Dragon Shaman less hopelessly boring, but still not overpowered.

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Martial Dragon Shaman idea
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 03:34:48 PM »
Well that was the plan. Rather than rewriting a ton of stuff I just let the auras and mans. come from the same pool and made it bigger. Though I could make the pool even bigger than it is and it still probably wouldn't be over powered at all.

Heck, it's only one discipline. This plus auras plus shamanic invocation alternate class feature will definitely make Dragon Shaman less hopelessly boring, but still not overpowered.
Well it is 2 actually. 1 for all and then a 2nd based on dragon type.

I also need to decide on a recovery mechanic. I'm thinking something that doesn't require an action would be best. Perhaps on BW recharging you get them all back, but that leaves nothing for levels 1-3.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

SKRP

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Re: Martial Dragon Shaman idea
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2010, 03:45:00 PM »

I also need to decide on a recovery mechanic. I'm thinking something that doesn't require an action would be best. Perhaps on BW recharging you get them all back, but that leaves nothing for levels 1-3.

So bring BW to 1st level.


archangel.arcanis

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Re: Martial Dragon Shaman idea
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2010, 05:50:21 PM »
The recovery mechanic could be "whenever your breath weapon hits"
I like that idea. I would have to define "hit" as it would be used. Likely deals damage or has another effect caused by your breath weapon. So if you have an alternate breath weapon that doesn't deal damage it would still refresh it. I just need to find a wording that won't let people refresh it for blocking their enemies view for the fraction of a second that the breath weapon was there. Also I need to figure out how it will interact with their maneuvers from the other school, which won't be BW dependent.

I also need to decide on a recovery mechanic. I'm thinking something that doesn't require an action would be best. Perhaps on BW recharging you get them all back, but that leaves nothing for levels 1-3.
Pretty sure I'll do this and have it scale appropriately.

So bring BW to 1st level.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

bkdubs123

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Re: Martial Dragon Shaman idea
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2010, 06:14:40 PM »
I preferred the recovery as "whenever your breath weapon recharges." It's easier to write, reads cleaner, communicates much clearer, etc. Also, if you give them Breath Weapon at 1st level it always works.

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Martial Dragon Shaman idea
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2010, 06:17:53 PM »
I preferred the recovery as "whenever your breath weapon recharges." It's easier to write, reads cleaner, communicates much clearer, etc. Also, if you give them Breath Weapon at 1st level it always works.
But what about racial BW as well? As I was looking over the new school I contemplated the implications of this modification to the DS used with a Dragonborn. I guess it should read only refreshes when BW granted by the class does. That also discourages them from using MetaBreath feats on their class ability while letting the DB one have at it.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Martial Dragon Shaman idea
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2010, 06:41:27 PM »
Edited the first post to reflect changes. Let me know what you think.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Martial Dragon Shaman idea
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2010, 06:54:16 PM »
I preferred the recovery as "whenever your breath weapon recharges." It's easier to write, reads cleaner, communicates much clearer, etc. Also, if you give them Breath Weapon at 1st level it always works.
But what about racial BW as well? As I was looking over the new school I contemplated the implications of this modification to the DS used with a Dragonborn. I guess it should read only refreshes when BW granted by the class does. That also discourages them from using MetaBreath feats on their class ability while letting the DB one have at it.

No need. Recharge time applies to all breath weapons you have (so if a Dragonborn Dragonfire Adept uses his Racial Breath Weapon instead of the class feature, both breath weapons need to wait 1d4 rounds before being an option again). The Rules Compendium has more on this.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Martial Dragon Shaman idea
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2010, 07:01:04 PM »
I preferred the recovery as "whenever your breath weapon recharges." It's easier to write, reads cleaner, communicates much clearer, etc. Also, if you give them Breath Weapon at 1st level it always works.
But what about racial BW as well? As I was looking over the new school I contemplated the implications of this modification to the DS used with a Dragonborn. I guess it should read only refreshes when BW granted by the class does. That also discourages them from using MetaBreath feats on their class ability while letting the DB one have at it.

No need. Recharge time applies to all breath weapons you have (so if a Dragonborn Dragonfire Adept uses his Racial Breath Weapon instead of the class feature, both breath weapons need to wait 1d4 rounds before being an option again). The Rules Compendium has more on this.
Ah I've never seen that before and just figured they would track separately. I guess by the same toke a half dragon couldn't use its racial 1/d during the time its class one was recharging.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Martial Dragon Shaman idea
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2010, 07:31:42 PM »
I preferred the recovery as "whenever your breath weapon recharges." It's easier to write, reads cleaner, communicates much clearer, etc. Also, if you give them Breath Weapon at 1st level it always works.
But what about racial BW as well? As I was looking over the new school I contemplated the implications of this modification to the DS used with a Dragonborn. I guess it should read only refreshes when BW granted by the class does. That also discourages them from using MetaBreath feats on their class ability while letting the DB one have at it.

No need. Recharge time applies to all breath weapons you have (so if a Dragonborn Dragonfire Adept uses his Racial Breath Weapon instead of the class feature, both breath weapons need to wait 1d4 rounds before being an option again). The Rules Compendium has more on this.
Ah I've never seen that before and just figured they would track separately. I guess by the same toke a half dragon couldn't use its racial 1/d during the time its class one was recharging.

Right. It makes sense for actual dragons because the BW comes from an internal organ near the heart (forgot what it's called). It makes less sense for purely magical BWs.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

cooperflood

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Re: Martial Dragon Shaman idea
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2010, 08:13:36 PM »
I love the idea, however I see problems with the recharge mechanism.  In theory I like the idea, but many of the Breath of Fire maneuvers reduce your recharge time.  For example Mountain Inhale is a first level boost which reduces your recharge time by 3 rounds.  I'm not super familiar with all the ends and out of breath weapons, but doesn't this mean your maneuvers and breath weapon will recover every round simply by spending a swift action?

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Martial Dragon Shaman idea
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2010, 08:16:13 PM »
True. I had originally thought about doing something similar to Crusader recovery but the suggestion of using the breath weapon was really tempting. I just wanted to avoid an action consuming mechanic since the class isn't terribly powerful to begin with.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

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Re: Martial Dragon Shaman idea
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2010, 09:58:00 PM »
True. I had originally thought about doing something similar to Crusader recovery but the suggestion of using the breath weapon was really tempting. I just wanted to avoid an action consuming mechanic since the class isn't terribly powerful to begin with.

In that case, add a minimum 1 round clause to the maneuvers that reduce BW recharge time.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Martial Dragon Shaman idea
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2010, 12:03:08 PM »
True. I had originally thought about doing something similar to Crusader recovery but the suggestion of using the breath weapon was really tempting. I just wanted to avoid an action consuming mechanic since the class isn't terribly powerful to begin with.

In that case, add a minimum 1 round clause to the maneuvers that reduce BW recharge time.
As the school isn't my project I amended the recharge mechanic to handle any instances of instant recharge. I now have it so if your BW recharge is 0 you get them back on the next round instead. This way if some feat or other ability reduces BW recharge it doesn't screw the mechanic either. In most cases they will still have maneuvers they could use by the time it recharges unless they aren't using their BW for some reason.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren