Author Topic: How do you handle PCs starting at level 7?  (Read 5357 times)

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RobbyPants

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Re: How do you handle PCs starting at level 7?
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2010, 06:50:46 PM »
They basically pulled the opposite of a tautology.

I believe the term used in logic is "contradiction".
I know that.  I was just making a point. :p


Where we disagree is what you believe "backwards compatibility" to mean. You seem to think it should mean "putting this stuff into your PF campaign will be a great idea and have no repercussions". What it means is "you can port this to Pathfinder with minimal conversions and it'll work about like it ever did" and, well, that's a claim it lives up to. It's just that pretty much every WotC product, core or noncore, had at least a few elements where "about like it ever did" was always broken and nobody cared because core is broken. A system that is perfectly backwards-compatible with a broken piece of crap will run it perfectly, and it will be exactly as broken a piece of crap as it ever was.
I see what you mean.  I'm going to agree to disagree at this point.
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Saxony

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Re: How do you handle PCs starting at level 7?
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2010, 09:45:23 PM »
Make the spellcasters burn through their spells until they become level 5 spellcasters or level 3 spellcasters.

Meaning, LET THEM USE THEIR COOL SPELLS.

This is the point of the game.
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Amechra

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Re: How do you handle PCs starting at level 7?
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2010, 09:39:16 PM »
On a side note, who wants to write the ToOPB? I already have a skill-monkey that's on par with the Lightning Warrior.
Basically, it gets 8*Int mod skills every level. You read that right.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
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Saxony

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Re: How do you handle PCs starting at level 7?
« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2010, 11:04:11 PM »
ToOPB
I don't speak acronymese. What's that?
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snakeman830

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Re: How do you handle PCs starting at level 7?
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2010, 11:07:32 PM »
ToOPB
I don't speak acronymese. What's that?
Tome of Overpowered Bullshit?
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Amechra

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[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

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raith0

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Re: How do you handle PCs starting at level 7?
« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2010, 02:12:37 AM »
i dont know about everyone.  but after a few years of playing 3.x everyone in my group had figured out that you needed some kind of spell casting ability by level 10.  and that full on casters had better/more option available.  and we went on a short run arms race with eachother.  after we got that out of our systems we all tried to pull back on how crazy we got with characters.  we also spend more time in roleplaying senerios and less time in combat.  at times we end up with characters spending sessions building castles/cities and or working on special projects like creating a masterpiece weapon or armor.  things like that.  we also tried to work with the DM so we knew how far he was willing to let us push the limits of what a character did,  or how far we could go with a concept without breaking things down. 

after about level 15 we did just let everything go and we as players would help in the creation of NPC we were going to battle and would help the DM with tactics that they would use if he missed something in a pinch.  for the most part this worked well for us.  everyonce in a while we would have a character need to retire because what we did just wouldnt work in the group/campaign.  but not all classes are created equal.


Ron

LordBlades

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Re: How do you handle PCs starting at level 7?
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2010, 09:01:16 AM »
i dont know about everyone.  but after a few years of playing 3.x everyone in my group had figured out that you needed some kind of spell casting ability by level 10.  and that full on casters had better/more option available.  and we went on a short run arms race with eachother.  after we got that out of our systems we all tried to pull back on how crazy we got with characters.  we also spend more time in roleplaying senerios and less time in combat.  at times we end up with characters spending sessions building castles/cities and or working on special projects like creating a masterpiece weapon or armor.  things like that.  we also tried to work with the DM so we knew how far he was willing to let us push the limits of what a character did,  or how far we could go with a concept without breaking things down. 

This. Casters per se are not the problem (unless not until really high level or if you really want to break the game in half) but rather the disparity of power in a group that includes both casters and non-casters. Also, talking to your DM about powerful characters is vital IMHO (I always approach mine with every optimized char concept 'I want to play a char that will do this and this, are you cool with it?'). Brining a DM or your fellow players out of their 'confort zone' regarding power level usually leads to unfun games.

When I started playing D&D with my first group (all new players except for the DM), I was the first to realise the power of casters over non-casters and start developing optimzied builds . The DM (who was a retard in retrospect) never tried to talk with me about it. Instead he just decided to call me a munchkin and kick me out. Later I met the group he got kicked out of (I still play with most of them today) and found out he was a failed optimzier himself. He tried to optimize for a few months, faild horrible in all of his builds, then decided to start an anti-optimization campaign, based around 'If I can't be strong, then nobody should').

The campaign I currently play in is probably the pinnacle of optimization my group will ever do. We all play (nearly) full casters (Wizard/Incantatrix; tiefling wizard/eldritch knight/abjurant champion, DMM Persist cleric/ordained champion, ardent/cleric/psychic theurge, bard going for sublime chord, and we might get a druid joining us in a few sessions) and having tons of fun. I play the wizard, and I really don't think there is much more practical optimization I can do on him. We've talked amongst ourselves, and after this campaign is done (about 1 year or so) we'd all like to do a low powered one, to try out all the fun builds we thought about over the years, but didn't quite cut it power-wise at the level we usually play.

stranglebat

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Re: How do you handle PCs starting at level 7?
« Reply #48 on: October 25, 2010, 09:06:36 AM »
Another thing you can do is synergise monsters. IE i once had a couple of flesh Golems standing waste high in water, with about 15 shocker lizards charging the place constantly which removed the slows off the golems and healed them while damaging everyone else.

With a bit of digging there is alot of cool monster combos you can do

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: How do you handle PCs starting at level 7?
« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2010, 09:36:52 AM »
Pathfinder didn't do anything to telekinesis or the candle of invocation.  If they can't handle low-hanging fruit, they probably can't handle the system-wide faults of third edition

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RobbyPants

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Re: How do you handle PCs starting at level 7?
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2010, 02:21:16 PM »
On a related note, does anyone have any advice for running stuff past 15th level for any length of time?
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

telehax

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Re: How do you handle PCs starting at level 7?
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2010, 02:28:51 PM »
When running things past level 15, the DM should be the most optimization savvy player in the group.

raith0

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Re: How do you handle PCs starting at level 7?
« Reply #52 on: October 25, 2010, 02:35:14 PM »
On a related note, does anyone have any advice for running stuff past 15th level for any length of time?

for the most part get rid of the monster manual,  and just throw NPC's with lots of class levels and prcs at them.

BeholderSlayer

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Re: How do you handle PCs starting at level 7?
« Reply #53 on: October 25, 2010, 03:14:09 PM »
On a related note, does anyone have any advice for running stuff past 15th level for any length of time?

for the most part get rid of the monster manual,  and just throw NPC's with lots of class levels and prcs at them.
This.

Past level 15 the DM needs to be able to throw together NPC's quickly and have the players fight them, and toss in monsters from the MM as gated creatures, etc.
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Sunic_Flames

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Re: How do you handle PCs starting at level 7?
« Reply #54 on: October 25, 2010, 03:51:23 PM »
On a related note, does anyone have any advice for running stuff past 15th level for any length of time?

for the most part get rid of the monster manual,  and just throw NPC's with lots of class levels and prcs at them.
This.

Past level 15 the DM needs to be able to throw together NPC's quickly and have the players fight them, and toss in monsters from the MM as gated creatures, etc.

Quickly and powerfully. If he can't make optimized (caster) NPCs on the quick, he's just making the game super easy.

I mean I can whip up a near epic mage in half an hour or less, but how many people deliberately do 'speed runs' to improve their DMing design skills?
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: How do you handle PCs starting at level 7?
« Reply #55 on: October 25, 2010, 07:20:07 PM »
Oh, that's easy.  As a DM, I just don't even bother statting out near-epic mages anymore.  I just pick a few thematic high-level spells and feats, toss on a couple of fitting prc abilities, and I'm done.

If there's a question about a specific immunity, that's what percentile dice are for.

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