Author Topic: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions  (Read 6746 times)

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MrBumberdumble

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Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« on: October 10, 2010, 11:05:57 PM »
So I originally posted this in the ask/answer thread, but I think this is a little too complicated to continue in there.

I'm looking for a couple build suggestions for a campaign that's about to start in a couple weeks.  I'm very excited as this will be the first long campaign with my group that I haven't DM'd in a few years.

The role I'm looking to fill is either melee damage dealer or short range (thrown weapon) damage dealer.  I'm looking for something that's not a gish build, and is a solid build during the leveling process, not just at high levels.

Restrictions:  No mounts
No reliance on magic items
Any 3.5 non-world specific books are acceptable (yes ToB is fine)


I saw the "King of Smack" build, which looks extremely fun, but seems like it's weak at low levels.
I also saw Hood, but that seems to rely on magic items.

Any suggestions?

KellKheraptis

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2010, 11:23:30 PM »
How high of damage and hardcore optimized are you wanting to go?  A Revenant Blade/Frenzied Berserker needs only his Valenar double scimitar to turn things into soup chunks, just for starters.  A Barbarian/Champion of Gwyn gets all kinds of goodies, including divine grace and spellcasting from a limited list, in addition to everything a Barb 20 would get.  Even a Warblade 20 crackdown build would be masterful BFC, keeping anyone from doing anything meaningful within reach and dishing out the hurt.  For that matter, look up Goatball MVP (or how to play pinball with an orcish shotput and Bloodstorm Blade).  And if we're going gish, a whole new can of worms opens up.  Lemme know which direction you want to focus on (lockdown/control, gish, raw damage, melee with ranged, charger) and I'll hone in further :D
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Solo

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2010, 11:24:17 PM »
Warblade 20

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Saxony

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2010, 11:44:34 PM »
Warblade 20
This is a very good suggestion for a no magic item game. Warblades come optimized straight out the box, with little additions necessary.
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Havok4

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2010, 02:32:58 AM »
Totemist from magic of incarnum might work. The lack of magic items actually makes incarnum classes better in some ways as there is less opportunity cost involved with the chakra binds.  But you would not go wrong with a warblade/bloodstorm blade to cover both of your character ideas.

KellKheraptis

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2010, 02:40:29 AM »
Totemist from magic of incarnum might work. The lack of magic items actually makes incarnum classes better in some ways as there is less opportunity cost involved with the chakra binds.  But you would not go wrong with a warblade/bloodstorm blade to cover both of your character ideas.

Combine with Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike for HADOKEN!  :P
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X-Codes

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2010, 08:43:04 AM »
I also saw Hood, but that seems to rely on magic items.

Any suggestions?
Hood as a build might, but hood as a philosophy doesn't.  If you combine Leap Attack and Battle Jump, you deal disgusting amounts of damage.  Combat Brute and Shock Trooper make it even more ridiculous.

RobbyPants

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2010, 09:35:49 AM »
For simple, I agree with warblade 20.  Any type of a pounce charger can work pretty well, but they really start to shine at about 6th level.  I'd just warn you against focusing too much on one thing.  For instance, you can make a good tripper who is also a passable charger.

For that matter, look up Goatball MVP (or how to play pinball with an orcish shotput and Bloodstorm Blade).
I just looked that up.  It's priceless.  I'm going to have to make an NPC that does that some time.
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MrBumberdumble

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2010, 09:46:44 AM »
How high of damage and hardcore optimized are you wanting to go?  A Revenant Blade/Frenzied Berserker needs only his Valenar double scimitar to turn things into soup chunks, just for starters.  A Barbarian/Champion of Gwyn gets all kinds of goodies, including divine grace and spellcasting from a limited list, in addition to everything a Barb 20 would get.  Even a Warblade 20 crackdown build would be masterful BFC, keeping anyone from doing anything meaningful within reach and dishing out the hurt.  For that matter, look up Goatball MVP (or how to play pinball with an orcish shotput and Bloodstorm Blade).  And if we're going gish, a whole new can of worms opens up.  Lemme know which direction you want to focus on (lockdown/control, gish, raw damage, melee with ranged, charger) and I'll hone in further :D

Sorry I didn't reply sooner.  I'm sick and went to bed early :(

And thanks to everyone else for the suggestions.  We already will have a lockdown tank, so I'm not concerned about battle control.  There will also be a few casters, so I want to avoid a gish build, plus the DM is going to be very strict about material components.

I'm concerned with raw damage in either melee only or short ranged (something incorporating bloodstorm) form.  It doesn't have to be terribly simple.  There are no multiclassing limitations, so I'm free to dip.

Does anyone have any feedback on the King of Smack as far as how weak the build is at low levels?  That build looks fun.

Mixster

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2010, 09:52:36 AM »
Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 6/Unarmed Swordsage 1/Swashbuckler +10 Is a pretty decent meelee damage dealer.

If you grab daring outlaw and some way to sneak attack, Undead, Constructs and Oozes.
And also remember the Twf version of the Swashbuckler. I think it's from Drow of The Underdark, but haven't been able to find it myself.
The only thing you really need is 10 strength, loads of dex and two stabby knives of doom. And you should be set.

Or you could go the swift hunter -> dervish route.

The simplest build is still Warblade 20 though, who can both deal damage and soak a lot of damage.

EDIT: This just in, if your DM allows dragon Magazine, consider being a wild monk (from some Dragon Magazine) and grab the beaststrike feat from Dragon 355. This way you can kick ass and be a monk at the same time. You can turn into a bear, and then hit someone with flurry of blows, and deal both your unarmed damage and your natural attack damage on both all attacks. Also you are pretty SAD (Only needing Wisdom and Con).
This is a worthwhile build for one reason alone, you can play a monk, and not suck (as much as a regular monk does). Also, you'll be a kung-fu bear. Think about how awesome that is.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 09:57:03 AM by Mixster »
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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RobbyPants

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2010, 10:41:27 AM »
Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 6/Unarmed Swordsage 1/Swashbuckler +10 Is a pretty decent meelee damage dealer.
I'm AFB right now, but do you get any notable class features at level 16 for swashbuckler?  If not, I'd be tempted to take another level of rogue, as you get BAB and skill points, and Uncanny Dodge, at the cost of 2 HP on average.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
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Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Mixster

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2010, 11:23:15 AM »
That's probably a good idea, also if your levels of swashbuckler+rogue should ever add up to an even number grab a level of the sneak attack thug fighter variant.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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Jopustopin

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2010, 12:26:48 PM »
Anything out of the tome of battle has my vote.  If I could play anything right now, I've always wanted to try out the Eternal Blade prestige class.

Might do something as simple as Warblade 10/Eternal Blade 10

MrBumberdumble

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2010, 12:29:12 PM »
Interesting.  Any particular flanking/hiding feats I should be looking into for maximizing sneak attack's viability?

RobbyPants

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2010, 01:01:25 PM »
Interesting.  Any particular flanking/hiding feats I should be looking into for maximizing sneak attack's viability?
I've never used them personally, but the PHB2 has two flanking feats (Versatile and Adaptive Flanker, I think) that help.  One increases the attack bonus from +2 to +4 and the other gives you more options where to stand so you don't need to be across from your ally.  The downside to these are that they require Combat Reflexes as a prereq, so you have to end up spending three feats to get the advantage.

You may consider a dip into barbarian just to pick up pounce and whirling frenzy.  Then, if you win initiative, you can still pounce-charge someone for Sneak Attack damage.

Sadly, the most reliable ways to make SA more viable involve magic or magic items, and you didn't want to depend on those.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Rebel7284

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2010, 01:23:14 PM »
There is that ACF that allows half damage to normally immune things.
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2010, 01:36:15 PM »
Here's one : Mystic Ranger 15/Scout 5, Swift Hunter and Sword of the Arcane Order.  Cast wizard spells up to 5th level, skirmish against crit immune creatures selected as favored enemies (which includes wizards with fortification with Arcane Hunter), skill monkey galore, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, and if you can switch your fighting style (read : lose it), go Wildshape Ranger as well.  Your fighting style is now Fleshraker Dinosaur :)  Also, see about getting Venomfire.  Other than needing a spellbook for SotAO, you could possibly even go VoP and do alright with no gear at all.
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Clennan

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2010, 01:45:19 PM »
Mr. Bumber, you expressed some interest in the King of Smack early on, to which it seemed nobody addressed. My concern with KoS is that it capitalizes on a campaign-specific feat/feature (AFB at the moment). The Talashtora monk or some such allows levels in one class besides monk to advance monk unarmed damage, in this case psychic warrior.

The build can work without it, but it loses some of its punch (pardon the pun).

Fundamentally, the psychic warrior is a utiligish, which is fun as hell, but I always had problems with buffing myself in the first round or two of combat. Also, I think you wannted to avoid gishes.

Have you looked at "The Big Guy is With Me"? I've never built one, but it sounds like a unique way to go...

KellKheraptis

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2010, 02:01:00 PM »
Mr. Bumber, you expressed some interest in the King of Smack early on, to which it seemed nobody addressed. My concern with KoS is that it capitalizes on a campaign-specific feat/feature (AFB at the moment). The Talashtora monk or some such allows levels in one class besides monk to advance monk unarmed damage, in this case psychic warrior.

The build can work without it, but it loses some of its punch (pardon the pun).

Fundamentally, the psychic warrior is a utiligish, which is fun as hell, but I always had problems with buffing myself in the first round or two of combat. Also, I think you wannted to avoid gishes.

Have you looked at "The Big Guy is With Me"? I've never built one, but it sounds like a unique way to go...

The most basic KoS can be built with only the XPH, and is viable at all levels.  If you add in Complete Psionic for a few feats and Warshaper, he becomes downright scary at later levels, and still strong early since all the feats are front loaded on Psychic Warrior.  If you're not keen on the Karmic Strike use of the original, do something original with the 2-4 feats invested in it.  I personally picked up an energy power and a recharge method and played Goku :P
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Melee build suggestions with some restrictions
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2010, 04:27:37 PM »
The thing with buffing as a psywar is that you can go one of a few ways (with a lot more options opening up later on): You can either rely on AoOs for your attacks, with expansion, a reach weapon, Combat Reflexes, and buffing using your actions; you can rely on long-term buffs and use them before battle; or you could use Linked Power (from CPsi) to buff using your swift actions.

You can always mix and match, as the mood suits you.

Also, all you need to be a decent psywar at low levels is expansion, a good weapon, and decent Strength. The rest is up to you.
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