Author Topic: An odd Optimization challenge  (Read 1953 times)

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Thistledown Thurbertaut

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An odd Optimization challenge
« on: October 02, 2010, 11:25:37 PM »
I'd like help seeing if an idea I had is workable.

The idea is a special class (actually build) of psionic paladins.

The idea is to combine psionic powers (from psion or more likely psychic warrior), Martial maneuvers (from the Crusader class) and divine casting (from cleric or paladin).  RKV should probably get in there too if possible.

NOTE:  I realize this won't optimize to being a tier 1 or 2 class, yes I know I am sacrificing caster/manifester levels.

The idea is for something similar to a (rebalanced) paladin type.  A character who can buff up and kick ass in melee, with psionics and spells probably capping out at level 4-6.  I would probably emphasize martial maneuvers over casting and psion progression but I do want the divine/psionic combination flavor to carry through.

Any thoughts, ideas suggestions, builds?

Let me try one here to get things started, feel free to poke holes but please be constructive: I am here to learn and (hopefully) make a cool, fun and effective build.


Psion 7/Crusader 3/Cleric 2/RKV 8







Bauglir

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Re: An odd Optimization challenge
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2010, 12:07:34 AM »
PsyWar 2/Cleric 2/Crusader 1/Prestige Paladin 3/Ruby Knight Vindicator 7/Psychic Theurge 5? Take Serenity from Dragon Compendium so that you're Wis based and minimize Save-related maneuvers. Divine Power is your friend. You'll only be a 7th level PsyWar in the end, but that's enough to augment Expansion once, IIRC. Gets you cast as Cleric 14, which isn't too bad. Kinda hard to work in psionics on top of maneuvers and casting. Ardent probably works well instead of PsyWar if you're so inclined, and you can shenanigan your way up to higher level powers that way (as if you were an 11th level ardent, I believe). Losing a level of Prestige Paladin and gaining another of Psychic Theurge gets you an extra level of manifesting at the loss of a few Paladin class features.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

Thistledown Thurbertaut

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Re: An odd Optimization challenge
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2010, 12:43:44 AM »
Hmmm...

Well it doesn't have to actually include levels of Paladin...Crusader works better for maneuvers which is what I would like to add.  IF I did want to add Paladin levels I would scorn the Prestige Paladin in favor of this very sexy homebrew that I am quite enamored of at the moment.

Another factor...for flavor purposes I'd like to, if possible, progress in the following order of againing abilities:  Psioncs first, then Crusader training and then  entering the spell casting class/progression in the mid to late build.

So using your classes (and my pet paladin) we get: psywar 2, Crusader 1/Paladin 3 (or would straight Crusader 4 be better?  Crusader 3, cleric 2?) Psychic Theurge 5, RKV 7.  Does that work?  And what did you mean by shennanigans for Ardent?  I'm trying to stick to practical applications. 

Bauglir

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Re: An odd Optimization challenge
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2010, 01:04:17 AM »
They're not very severe shenanigans, but technically an ardent learns powers based on its manifester level, not based on its level in Ardent. Thus, if you have a feat such as Practiced Manifester (which increases your manifester level, IIRC), you can learn higher level powers than you otherwise could. If you don't want actual Paladin, you should probably drop it entirely; I included it for some class features, and the fact that it progressed Cleric casting.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

Thistledown Thurbertaut

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Re: An odd Optimization challenge
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2010, 01:10:12 AM »
So how about Ardent 2/Crusader 3/Cleric 1/and then alternate levels of RKV and Psychic Theurge.

Would that be playable?  I forgot to mention that I always try and think in terms of progressing from level 1, not just the final 20 build... it's good to know where you wil be strong and weak along the way...

Thistledown Thurbertaut

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Re: An odd Optimization challenge
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2010, 09:49:07 AM »
Okay I got it!

So first off the race I am using is an Elan, modified by a more modest (I think) version of the +1 mineral warrior template, a subtype called Deep Crystal Warrior.

Deep Crystal Warrior LA+1 (Arguably +2, based on Mineral Warrior which is likely underrated).
+2 Str,  +2 Con + 2 Wis, -2 Dex, -2 Int.  Deep Crystal Warriors are solid, strong and in tune with the world, but move stiffly and rely on intuition over logic.

Natural Armor +2, Damage Reduction 5/Adamantine, Takes 50% more damage from sonic spells and effects.
Movement: same as base creature. Darkvision out to 60' or the base races whichever is higher.
Special Attacks: May charge unarmed attacks with power points as a deep crystal weapon.
Bonus Feat: Psiforged Body
SLA Glow as the Light spell at will.
Psionic Sustenance:  As beings of solid mineral Crystal Warriors do not breath.  They do require psionic energy to sustain themselves and will starve if they do not consume 1 of their power points per day.



Holy Order of the Cruciform (Ruby Knight Vindicator Reflavor)

Alignment: Neutral Good,  Favored Weapon: Great Sword (Deep Crystal)

The Shard People worship a being hidden deep within the recess of the deepest Underdark they call The Cruciform.  It is said to be an evershifting geometirc pattern of pure lifeforce.  No one alive has ever seen it but the Shard People believe it to be the creator of their race.  Every Shard is psionic but a rare few feel the light of the divine calling them home. They can feel it Light in the Darkness, beckoning them to find it. Those who heed the call are known as Ruby Knight Vindicators.  They train themselves in the martial ways so they can delve into the heart of the Abyss in search of their living god, and help who they can along the way.


Build: Ardent 2/Cleric 1/Psychic Theurge 7/Crusader 3/RKV 7

Primary Mantles: Life, Force. Secondary Mantle: Magic (makes psoinic/magic transparency)
Powers Known: Force Screen, Deflection Field, Touch of Health, Stygian Ward,  Dispel Psionics, Power (Spell) Resistance, Mend Wounds, Concussive Detonation, True Metabolism and Protection from Spells (and Psionics).

Feats:

Flaw: Honest, Bonus Feat: Improved Unarmed Attack
Trait:
1) Psi Crystal Affinity (I'd ask the DM for permission to have the otherwise rather bland Psychic Theurge class advane psi crystal abilities contrary to what is written in the class description.  If they are down with my homebrew template then they are already down with what I am attempting to create.
3) Persist Spell
6) DMM Persist
9-18) Extra Turning

Has access to 7th level cleric spells, and Manifester level 9 (practical 8) Ardent powers in the realms of Protection and Healing.  

Initiator Level 15: Access to Level 8 Martial Maneuvers, 9 total known and 4 stances.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 06:33:04 AM by Thistledown Thurbertaut »

Waazraath

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Re: An odd Optimization challenge
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2010, 11:55:18 AM »
Alternative: you can use a phrenic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm) creature for the psionic powers, maybe together with magic in the blood feat from PGtF, and go for a more conventional cleric/crusader/RKV build.

Thistledown Thurbertaut

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Re: An odd Optimization challenge
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2010, 12:18:19 PM »
Meh.  For another +2 LA?  I really like what those two levels of Ardent and the Psychic Theurge get me and in terms of casting.  I'm satisifed with my creation and it fits what I had wanted to create, both visually, mechanicly as well as flavor.

Waazraath

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Re: An odd Optimization challenge
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2010, 12:26:17 PM »
For another +2 LA?

LA buy off, of course

I'm satisifed with my creation and it fits what I had wanted to create, both visually, mechanicly as well as flavor.

Then It Is Good :)