Author Topic: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-Taking Requests  (Read 333701 times)

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Caiphon

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I'd say give them abilities which let them affect an area with all their attacks (everything within reach?). Because obviously if you're rolling upwards of 200 dice per turn the other players will try to kill you. :p

And either a weapon duplication ability or an organ which can be enchanted and passes it on to every weapon you wield.

Yeah, your right with that, or maybe you could halve the number of attacks to adjust If the player wants to use a two handed weapon, say, a spear (soooo epic  :p)
I also think oslecamo makes each class according to cr, so in this case I'll suggest cutting it up, because a 57 level class is odd  ;)

oslecamo

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I'd say give them abilities which let them affect an area with all their attacks (everything within reach?). Because obviously if you're rolling upwards of 200 dice per turn the other players will try to kill you. :p

And either a weapon duplication ability or an organ which can be enchanted and passes it on to every weapon you wield.

A strong point. Since the main stick of the hecatoncheires is a hundred arms and fifty heads, I can't just wait untill level 57 to grant them all. So I guess area attacks and combining multiple attacks in a single big one are the way to go.

Caiphon:
Thanks for the report, good to hear my work is performing well! :D

I also think oslecamo makes each class according to cr, so in this case I'll suggest cutting it up, because a 57 level class is odd  ;)
It's a matter of honor by now. I did the Xixecal with 36 levels, this is just 21 more. Altough really the hecatoncheires shall have most of its main abilities by level 20 (even if some still not at full power), then by levels 30+ I just start to make up big flashy stuff that I couldn't really safely put in non-epic levels. The hecatoncheires are suposed to stomp gods for breakfast after all. :P

Caiphon

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I'd say give them abilities which let them affect an area with all their attacks (everything within reach?). Because obviously if you're rolling upwards of 200 dice per turn the other players will try to kill you. :p

And either a weapon duplication ability or an organ which can be enchanted and passes it on to every weapon you wield.

A strong point. Since the main stick of the hecatoncheires is a hundred arms and fifty heads, I can't just wait untill level 57 to grant them all. So I guess area attacks and combining multiple attacks in a single big one are the way to go.

Caiphon:
Thanks for the report, good to hear my work is performing well! :D

I also think oslecamo makes each class according to cr, so in this case I'll suggest cutting it up, because a 57 level class is odd  ;)
It's a matter of honor by now. I did the Xixecal with 36 levels, this is just 21 more. Altough really the hecatoncheires shall have most of its main abilities by level 20 (even if some still not at full power), then by levels 30+ I just start to make up big flashy stuff that I couldn't really safely put in non-epic levels. The hecatoncheires are suposed to stomp gods for breakfast after all. :P


No problem oslecamo! Next time I'll give you a report of the pleroma, I'm glad to help :D
Oh, and about The hecatoncheires, I understand your level thing, epic campaigns exist , and
epic campaigns exist

Im currently at 2 campaigns, and one of them is the latter, so I'm ok with 57 levels. Let me exemplify:
    -our cleric has a cohort, that has a cohort, that has a cohort, that is a level 37 sorcerer
    -I'm able to planar rebuke the hecantoncheires by taking 10, and I already have a cohort, that's a undead giant scorpion behemoth that deals 2d6 negative levels as a sting attack, and casts as a 20 level wizard that doesnt need material components
    -our Druid wildshapes into a pseudonatural tarrasque. legally
    -my girl has a great wyrm prismatic dragon as a cohort, and her own demiplane full of lavawights and winterwights at her service, that torment undead servant into crafting Magic items for us
...

So yeah, 57 levels? Ain't bad idea  :p





Mushroom

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« Last Edit: August 04, 2011, 04:47:26 AM by Mushroom »

Daedroth

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Requesting Brass & Copper dragons
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 02:54:13 PM by Daedroth »

CDTalmas

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Actually, I think I wouldn't mind seeing a merfolk entry.  They seem so... lackluster normally.

PhaedrusXY

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The hecatoncheires are suposed to stomp gods for breakfast after all. :P

Yeah... and the official writeup is so far from being able to do that that it isn't even funny... They need a LOT more powerful abilities, like the ability to ignore all SDAs and divine spells, or something that would actually let them not die instantly to even a moderately powerful deity. Heck, maybe just give them some kind of insanely powerful magic immunity like the 3.0 Demiliches, and also let it apply to SDAs...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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The hecatoncheires are suposed to stomp gods for breakfast after all. :P

Yeah... and the official writeup is so far from being able to do that that it isn't even funny... They need a LOT more powerful abilities, like the ability to ignore all SDAs and divine spells, or something that would actually let them not die instantly to even a moderately powerful deity. Heck, maybe just give them some kind of insanely powerful magic immunity like the 3.0 Demiliches, and also let it apply to SDAs...
Depends upon the god matchup.
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The Tygre

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Os! You're still alive! And so are the monster classes! Hell, they're thriving! How ya' been, buddy?
"And he said, 'Dance before us, atrocious nothing.'"

oslecamo

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Daedroth:Ok, will do after the hecatoncheire.

Os! You're still alive! And so are the monster classes! Hell, they're thriving! How ya' been, buddy?

Hi Tygre, long time no see! As you may notice this is now my main D&D forum, kudos for Prime32 to have shown me this place to begin with. As you noticed I kept the monster classes project running ever since I exited gitp to today, and also several other homebrew projects you can find in my sig (plus updating my Dming guide). I'm also still running one of the campaigns I started back there and a new one I started here, both at plothook.net.

This is a pretty nice place, somewhat less populated than gitp, and the extra-complex table code is a a pain in the ass, but the saner moderation more than makes up for it. Hope you enjoy your stay!

The hecatoncheires are suposed to stomp gods for breakfast after all. :P

Yeah... and the official writeup is so far from being able to do that that it isn't even funny... They need a LOT more powerful abilities, like the ability to ignore all SDAs and divine spells, or something that would actually let them not die instantly to even a moderately powerful deity. Heck, maybe just give them some kind of insanely powerful magic immunity like the 3.0 Demiliches, and also let it apply to SDAs...
Depends upon the god matchup.
Meh, they're still horrible for their level. They don't even have HD equal to their CR, no way to actualy move and unleash their lunatic full attack (even a quickened dimensional door shuts off their remaining actions for the turn), just huge sized and some basic SLAs, and most of their attacks don't even count as magic. I'll have to apply them a lot of custom powerful abilities to make them the god-slayers they're meant to be if you actualy reach lv 57.

 

Chrononaut

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Hecatonchires is so underoptimized it's not even funny, just sad. If it had multiweapon fighting feats all the way up to perfect it would actually make 400 attacks on a full round, since it's using all manufactured weapons. To name a few. (The multiweapon version of two weapon pounce, multiweapon pounce, would let it get off 100 attacks on a charge, at least).

b100d_arrowz

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Hecatonchires is so underoptimized it's not even funny, just sad. If it had multiweapon fighting feats all the way up to perfect it would actually make 400 attacks on a full round, since it's using all manufactured weapons. To name a few. (The multiweapon version of two weapon pounce, multiweapon pounce, would let it get off 100 attacks on a charge, at least).
The Hecatonchires just needs to take a level in lion spirit totem barbarian to get pounce, and then 3 levels of the defiant prestige class and get immunity to divine damage  :D
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Chrononaut

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Off the top of my head, ideas I came up with would be like the ability to grant its swords the dread property, in addition to feat reorganization. 400 attacks in a full round with dread longswords is an average of 40 crits, 80 if it has improved critical. That's an awful lot of rolls consisting of 'not nat 1' to make for anyone to avoid being pasted. If it could dervish dance around on top of that, moving from person to person to kill them... (and maybe attack from ethereal too...). To deal with gods it would need some way of temp removing or negating divine ranks and interdicting travel effects, until the god is weak enough that the whole 'can't be killed: GOD' thing stops protecting them from Dread crits.

/$0.02

dmanus

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Fantastic job, Oslecamo!  I have always loved monster classes.  Yours and the other members contributions are grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat!  :clap

I got the 3.5 bug afew weeks ago and started pouring over the old books.  I just fiished savage species and was celebrating its coolness while lamenting its failures.  You guys have put together some really flavorful and workable classes.

I am so glad to find this place after the mortfication I experienced when I realized how much of he old CO boards had been devastated...   RIP lost threads of compiled optimized brokeness...  :(

Prime32

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On hecatoncheires, maybe give it the power to absorb things by consuming them. At first it can only have one creature absorbed at a time (taking on its appearance), but that increases as it gains levels, culminating in the mass of 50 people. Absorbing a creature prevents it from being rezzed and lets the hec use some of its abilities exactly once (similar to Metamorphic Transfer). Including divine abilities.

At high levels, remove the "penetrated by good" part of its regeneration.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 01:37:43 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Chrononaut

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It's also got rock throwing as a giant for... some reason.

In greek myth, the hecatonchires didn't throw rocks, they threw 100 MOUNTAINS at the titans. Maybe look at that angle too. (Also at least one, Briareus, stood guard in Tartarus over the vanquished titans at the Gods behest.)

Of course the greek gods were basically 11th or 13th level wizards in terms of powers displayed anyways, so that's a pretty poor guideline. XP

oslecamo

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On hecatoncheires, maybe give it the power to absorb things by consuming them. At first it can only have one creature absorbed at a time (taking on its appearance), but that increases as it gains levels, culminating in the mass of 50 people. Absorbing a creature prevents it from being rezzed and lets the hec use some of its abilities exactly once (similar to Metamorphic Transfer). Including divine abilities.

The idea of the hecatoncheire being some monstruous amalgam of other creatures sounds actually pretty cool and would be a great touch on uniqueness. I'll work on it.

"You need to make a god bleed to actualy hurt a high level hecantoncheire" was one of my first ideas actualy.

And yes I'll put rock throwing that eventualy scales up to mountain throwing. :p

owenkendel

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Work In Progress

Kython Overlord



[spoiler]

Prerequisites: To become an Kython Overlord, a player must fulfill the following conditions.
-Must have finished a kython prestige class and have at least 13 HD.


HD:d10
Level   BAB   Fort   Ref   Will   Special
 1st     +1      +0   +2     +2    1 Evolution Point
 2nd    +2      +0   +3     +3    1 Evolutions Points, Ability Boost
 3rd     +3      +1   +3     +3    2 Evolution Points      
 4th     +4      +1   +4     +4    2 Evolution Points, Ability Boost
 5th     +5      +1   +4     +4    4 Evolution Points
 6th     +6      +1   +4     +4    Overlord, Ability Boost
Skills: 4+ int mod. A Kython Viscerators class skills are Balance, Climb, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Survival, Swim, and Tumble

Proficiencies: a Kython Viscerator is proficient in its natural weapons


Ability boost: Select 2 attributes, you gain +1 to each. (You may change your choice each time gaining this ability)

Kython Evolution: When selecting a Kython evolution you may not select the same evolution twice. Abilities of the same name gained from other classes do not stack, use whichever is better.

       1 Point Evolutions:
              Fast Healing: Gain Fast Healing 1. (May be taken multiple times, each time increasing it by 1)
              Immunity: Select one of the following: acid, cold, electricity, fire, sonic, poison, disease. You gain immunity to the chosen one. (This may be selected more than once)  
              Regeneration: Gain Regeneration 0. (Only useful for regrowing or reattaching body parts.)
              Speed Boost: All speeds increase by 5ft for every 5 HD.
              Subtype: You gain a subtype of your choosing. If you have the Lay Egg ability, you may give any kython you have created a subtype that you have. That Kython counts as one level higher for each subtype. (This may be selected more than once) (If you have weakness and immunity to the same thing because of 2 or more subtype, they cancel each other out.)
             
       2 Point Evolutions:
              Damage Reduction: DR/material, material must be iron, silver or adamantium, equal to 1/2 the Creature's HD.
              Sure-footed: The Overlord gains the evasion ability.
              Wings: gains a fly speed of 15 feet per 2HD, with clumsy maneuverability. The maneuverability increases one stage for every even level in this class.
              Growth: Grow one size category, at 16HD grow another. (Can't go larger than Gargantuan)

       4 Point Evolutions: May only gain one of these pre epic
              Equipment Master: All your Kython equipment is considered 1 size category larger. You count as 4HD higher for all Kython equipment purposes. (Not saving throws)
              Instinctive Cunning: An Overlord gains 20% miss chance against all attacks for every ally it has adjacent to it, up to 60% miss chance.
              Lay Egg (Least): Once per day an Overlord may lay 1d4 Eggs as a fullround action, which hatch each into a broodling (lvl 1 Kython with elite array of stats, no gear) in 24 hours. They obey the Overlord blindly, and for every other 24 hours the Overlord may make those broodlings gain one more level on the Kyton class, but the Overlord cannot control more of them than twice his own HD in kytons, and even then cannot control any single kython with more than the Overlord's own HD-2. Kytons in excess only care about eating and killing stuff to eat, including other nearby kytons. Once they finish the kython class, those kyton minions may take levels on the kyton impaler class. If they finish it, they may then take levels on any PC class. If the Overlord is killed he releases a special substance which make his nearby minions automatically flee, and in 24 hours the strongest of them which is still alive and free morphs and grows into a new Overlord identical to the deceased one (except equipment), which may then be controlled by the player.

Overlord: Depending on what kython prestige class you have finished and used to enter this class you gain an ability. ()
       Impaler
              Improved Eviscerate Charge: Charge now deals 9d6 damage(plus double strength modifier or dexterity modifier)
       Viscerator
              Persistent Toxic Cloud: Toxic Cloud now persists for an additional round per 3HD. As a free action you may envelop yourself in your non persistent toxic cloud centered on you at max radius.
       Slaymaster
              Improved Disruptive Field: Disruptive Field now increase at a rate of -1 per 2 HD and anyone the Overlord wishes with in range must make a fort save vs Slow, DC 10+1/4HD+Con mod.
       Slaughterking
              Ruthless: The critical threat range of all natural weapons doubles. It also gets a +4 confirm criticals, this is an untyped bonus . This does not stack with other things that double threat ranges and is always applied first.
[/spoiler]


Description

Comments
Giving credit to oslecamo, used alot of your stuff.

Haven't decided on the fluff yet. Trying to make it a versatile but not overpowering class. So the user may create any Kython they can imagine.

Taken from the Book of Vile Darkness: As they mature, each answers only to those more powerful than themselves, so slaughterkings are the highest kython authority—at least so far. Given time, the kythons may grow into new forms that are even more specialized and powerful.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 02:28:00 AM by owenkendel »

oslecamo

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Kython Overlord:

-Why the Cha boost? It's somewhat flavourfull yes, but it really isn't doing anything for the Kython.
-If the Kython only gets a boost to a single physical score every couple of levels, you should give a name to the ability and remove the bonus from the table (check mind flayer class).
-"If there is an evolution of the same name gained from a Kython class you may not select it." What do you mean with that exactly? Didn't you perhaps meant an ability from a kython class you already have?
-Water breathing is a really weak ability by itself. No need for fresh vs salt distinction. Also throw in gaining the aquatic subtype for underwater combat whitout penalties plus swim speed (also not very hot abilities by themselves).
-You don't gain size categories, you grow them.
-Typo in Improved Disruptive Field, it should say "with in range must make a fort save ".
-Persistent toxic cloud last an additional round per 3 what?
-Ruthless seems quite subpar compared to the other options. At the very minimum it should stack with other critical increasers. Throw something else like the ability to inflict criticals on creatures normally immune to them.
-Other abilities look good at first glance. It's an interesting concept and I like where it's going. However since it's not based on any specific monster, you should really put in some custom fluff.

owenkendel

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What do you think about losing the Aquatic ability and replacing it with the ability to gain a subtype?