Author Topic: Optimizing Soulfused Construct  (Read 6706 times)

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McPoyo

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Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« on: September 29, 2010, 12:14:41 PM »
So, Magic of Incarnum page 195 has the Soulfused Construct template. It can be applied to any construct without the Living Construct subtype, or an intelligence score. It gets some minor boosts, such as the Living Construct subtype, Essentia equal to 1 + 1/6 levels, the ability to invest essentia like a Cloak of Resistance, +2 dex and +4 cha, Int is set to 3, and Con is set to 10. Here's the fun part: under the Hit Dice column, it says to see the Advancing a Soulspark section on page 198.
Quote
A soulspark not created by means of the soulspark familiar soulmeld gains 1 additional point of essentia to invest in its incarnum shroud for each Hit Die it gains. Its Dexterity and Charisma scores each increase by 1 for every 4 additional Hit Dice
Bolding mine.

So while the first half of the ability is largely useless (you don't have an incarnum shroud, after all), the second half could be interesting as it's an unnamed bonus type. While Soulsparks are of the outsider type, and not constructs and therefor ineligible to gain the Soulfused Construct template, it might be arguable that the incarnum shroud restriction is irrelevant since you never have that racial feature.

So how hard would this be to shove onto a creature? Warforged Incarnate Construct Dustform Soulfused Construct looks like the easiest and quickest method, to me, netting a total LA of +1, but not a whole lot of good abilities. You basically lose your composite plating, and that's really it, unless I'm missing something, and gain some minor stat boosts at the cost of your Int going down to 3. Is there a more elegant method to get this onto something without tanking Int?
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
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Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2010, 05:17:04 PM »
Wait, what's your template application order?
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McPoyo

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2010, 05:20:29 PM »
Starting Warforged, picking up Incarnate to lose the construct (and living construct subtype, since the subtype lists itself as tied to the construct type in the sidebar of MoI), and going to humanoid. Apply Dustform to regain construct type and lose int score, then add Soulfused to gain back the living subtype and pick up a (completely horrid) int score and con score again.

You'd lose all your warforged stuff that wasn't stats, it looks like, but you'd keep everything you gained from all three templates.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

X-Codes

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2010, 07:51:56 PM »
From the wording of the template, it looks like you retain the bonus HP from being a construct despite becoming a Living Construct.  In that case, something simple like...

Half-Ogre Effigy Soulfused Construct
+10 Strength, -2 Dex, -8 Int, -6 Cha
+30 HP, +6 NA
Looks like +3 LA, but no racial HD, so you can go straight into classes.  With the bonus essentia, it looks like it could be good for a brutish incarnum user.

McPoyo

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2010, 08:16:15 PM »
Can we tack on enough templates after soulfused to fix the int issue? Maybe something like a soulfused nimblewright? Do those have int scores already?

Alternatively, dragonborn somewhere?
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

awaken DM golem

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2010, 08:18:59 PM »
 ??? ... where did I put that book

X-Codes

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2010, 08:23:45 PM »
Dragonborn is no good.  If you put it on before you apply Effigy, you lose the Dragonborn stuffs AND the Con bonus, you're just stuck with a lousy -2 Dex.  If you put it on after Soulfused, you lose the bonus Essentia.

Personally, I don't think Int is as much of a problem as the Charisma.  Not a lot deals Int damage, and a good will save protects against basically all of it.  Charisma damage is more worrisome, since there are lots of incorporeal undead that will be able to kill you with one touch, no save, and it doesn't have a floor value of 3, either.

Ithamar

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2010, 08:25:41 PM »
You could go into Warforged Juggernaut and get back most of those [Construct] immunities, like immunity to ability damage, mind affecting, etc.
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McPoyo

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2010, 08:40:11 PM »
Is there a compiled list of LA possessing constructs somewhere? Can always ritual away the racial HD.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Ithamar

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2010, 09:36:55 PM »
The three Warforged:  Charger, Scout & Standard Issue.  Maug of course.  And the Zhelekut from MMI.  Nothing else springs to mind unfortunately.
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McPoyo

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2010, 09:52:57 PM »
Nimblewrights have a +6 la, as well as an int score, so they're out, unfortunately. Looks like incarnate construct shenanigans are needed for the real fun.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Brainpiercing

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2010, 09:57:46 AM »
Is there a compiled list of LA possessing constructs somewhere? Can always ritual away the racial HD.
The point is that all mindless constructs are usually LA -. So basically in order to play a soulfused construct you to bend the rules unless you do all that template stacking. (And even Effigy doesn't work, because Effigy turns the LA into -.) Dustform is certainly unique in that respect. It also keeps all special qualities - which is certainly nice. The problem is the LA...

How about using the Soulfused construct fully within the spirit of the template? Are there any (non-template) mindless constructs without RHD, or just a few? At best even with a Cha score?

Prime32

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2010, 11:33:23 AM »
For DMs, soulfusing a shadesteel golem is nice. They get big racial skill bonuses inteded to make them as competent as a rogue of their level. When you add actual skill points...

Only other time I used this in a build was on a Tiny animated object in an attempt to stat a tsukumogami.
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Arz

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2010, 06:13:38 PM »
Best I can see with this is a Chaotic Incarnate archer build. Those 23 bonus essentia from soulfused would nearly power all your soulmelds and/or wpns and armor. Prolly best with a scout class warforged.

Anyone have an idea for a better base than Warforged Scout > Incaranate Construct > Dustform > Soulfused Construct ?

Rooster

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2010, 06:23:49 AM »
A fun note: Applying Incarnate Construct to a large creature gives you the Giant type.
There is a Giant-only template called Primordial Giant that gives -4 Str, -2 Con, +4 Int, +4 Cha and some minor abilities that may or may not be useful.

This may or may not help you, depending on what order you end up applying things.

Amechra

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2010, 06:14:08 PM »
Well, I would suggest Eldritch Haunt (DL: HToS), but it has no LA.

Basically, it's like Dustform Creature, in that it allows you to turn any creature into a construct. Except, you gain a +2 to all mental stats, and you gain a magical item as an alternate form.

Yes, a magical item. That you are treated as being/wearing.

So the Soulfused Eldritch Haunt of a Belt of Battle would be hilarious. Especially if you used an ada=vanced Choker as the base creature.

If the item is charged, you can recharge it by hitting a spellcaster with a touch attack and stealing their spell slots. Like a Spellthief, only better.
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On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
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McPoyo

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2010, 12:58:39 AM »
Wow. That's rather abusable. Eldritch Haunt Luckblade, anyone?
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Bastian

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2010, 06:30:11 PM »
UMD'd Horseshoes of the Flame would fix some of your intelligence problem since they give an unlisted bonus of +10 Int, +6 Cha, +2 Dex, fly speed 90 good, and 1d4 fire damage on hooves.

McPoyo

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2010, 11:30:29 AM »
UMD'd Horseshoes of the Flame would fix some of your intelligence problem since they give an unlisted bonus of +10 Int, +6 Cha, +2 Dex, fly speed 90 good, and 1d4 fire damage on hooves.
Isn't there a warforged that looks like a centaur? Seems like an easy fix to negate UMD needs.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

snakeman830

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Re: Optimizing Soulfused Construct
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2010, 11:35:31 AM »
UMD'd Horseshoes of the Flame would fix some of your intelligence problem since they give an unlisted bonus of +10 Int, +6 Cha, +2 Dex, fly speed 90 good, and 1d4 fire damage on hooves.
Isn't there a warforged that looks like a centaur? Seems like an easy fix to negate UMD needs.
Only if they have the Tauric Belt, which is a minor artifact.
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