Author Topic: SW Saga edition. What should I know?  (Read 10944 times)

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bearchucks

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2010, 03:49:51 AM »
...Dexterity?  Luminous beings we are, not this crude matter.  Trust in the Force. </yoda>

In all seriousness...Block and Deflect are crazy awesome at low levels and at high levels are a good line of defense.  Strength based saves you a feat and a talent.  Really the only two abilities a Jedi needs are Str for lightsaber combat and Cha for use of the Force--at low levels to use Move Object and throw people at each other and at higher levels to activate Cloak, Phase, Energy Resistance, Negate Energy, etc.

+1 to LordBlades Dark Rage trick.  Call it going into a combat focus or something.

Your first Force Training...might I recommend powers that you can activate reliably at your low level?  Surge, Move Object, Negate Energy, Battle Strike?  Any time you fail to activate a power, you've wasted that action.  Wasted actions make Master Yoda cry.

This all assumes you're starting at level 1d6 or so.  Starting at 10+...oh, one or two levels in Jedi Master isn't bad.  Grab Serenity at the very least and there's probably one Force Secret in some book that's worth it.  Serenity is just that good--given the rule about "any time you roll a nat 20 on a UtF you regain your entire force power suite."
http://www.atomicsockmonkey.com/freebies/di/pdq-core.pdf  The smallest, shortest, simplest ruleset of any RPG I've ever seen.  If 3.5 is too complex and you don't like 4.0, try this.  It has very few rules and is just short of freeform.

McPoyo

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2010, 09:48:16 AM »
Or flavor it as being similar to Mace Windu, channeling the darkness within yourself to serve the light.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2010, 11:26:33 AM »
what book is many shades of the force in? I checked the ones I have access to right now and didn't see it.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

LordBlades

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2010, 12:23:00 PM »
Jedi Academy Training Manual.

It belongs to one of the force traditions presented there (90% it's Falanassi)

McPoyo

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2010, 12:24:32 PM »
Jedi Academy Training Manual.

It belongs to one of the force traditions presented there (90% it's Falanassi)
Aing-tii, actually. Many Shades of the Force.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2010, 01:54:48 PM »
I'll have to see if the GM has that book.

So it looks like it will be Scout 1/Jedi 7/Jedi Knight x/Jedi Master 1
Making it a point to pick up Force Sensitivity at 1st level and train in UTF then as well. I would also pick up Skill focus UTF by 3rd level, either via Jedi 2 or my normal 3rd level feat.

Obviously picking up block and deflect ASAP. I would also get evasion from Scout 1, or should I use it to get Fringe Savant for gaining temp force points?

If Possible I will get dark rage and Many shades of the force, but will drop both if GM doesn't have JATM for us to use. Move object is likely a must along with probably one of the telekenisis talents. I'll probably pick up Phase and Cloak along with some sort of talent for them later as well.

Now I'm pondering race again if I avoid dex entirely. Part of me wants Ithorian for the racial AoE and abuse it with Shake it off (as a bonus from scout) and the bonus to wis and cha for better force abilities. The other races I'm considering are Trandoshan's for the str boost, darkvision, and limb regen; or wookie for big str, but the penalties concern me there. As always human is a decent option and may just be my choice,  :devil Clone trooper jedi maybe (I know it probably violates the laws of the setting but it would be a damed convincing argument for not following order 66)
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

McPoyo

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2010, 02:00:00 PM »
I'll have to see if the GM has that book.

So it looks like it will be Scout 1/Jedi 7/Jedi Knight x/Jedi Master 1
Making it a point to pick up Force Sensitivity at 1st level and train in UTF then as well. I would also pick up Skill focus UTF by 3rd level, either via Jedi 2 or my normal 3rd level feat.

Obviously picking up block and deflect ASAP. I would also get evasion from Scout 1, or should I use it to get Fringe Savant for gaining temp force points?

If Possible I will get dark rage and Many shades of the force, but will drop both if GM doesn't have JATM for us to use. Move object is likely a must along with probably one of the telekenisis talents. I'll probably pick up Phase and Cloak along with some sort of talent for them later as well.

Now I'm pondering race again if I avoid dex entirely. Part of me wants Ithorian for the racial AoE and abuse it with Shake it off (as a bonus from scout) and the bonus to wis and cha for better force abilities. The other races I'm considering are Trandoshan's for the str boost, darkvision, and limb regen; or wookie for big str, but the penalties concern me there. As always human is a decent option and may just be my choice,  :devil Clone trooper jedi maybe (I know it probably violates the laws of the setting but it would be a damed convincing argument for not following order 66)
There's actually something in the expanded universe about some clone troopers who were able to manifest force sensitivity due to blood transfusion experiments right before Order 66 was given, iirc.

Temp force points are good, as well. Spending a temp point to power your force abilities is better than spending an actual one, since the temp ones are easier to get more of. Trust me, getting more force points and/or keeping the ones you have via alternate payment methods is critical as a force user.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2010, 02:13:44 PM »
Sounds interesting so far. I think I'll work on the temp FP angle some. I'm trying to find out from the GM now if he has the Jedi book for me to snag that. I'm also trying to find out what the starting level and stat generation method will be, this guy is normally very generous with stats and at my urging will likely go with point buy (we had some issues before with some people having decent stats despite his generosity and others having god like stats and it really hurt the game due to the godly character being played by an munchken player).
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 02:15:19 PM by archangel.arcanis »
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

bearchucks

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2010, 07:24:05 PM »
Evasion is the god talent.  If you can get it, you do.  Area attacks are THE way people try to hose Jedi.  Deflect + Evasion means that autofire makes you chuckle (Hmm, they take a penalty to hit me, they do half damage on a hit and none if I deflect it).  Grenades are still an issue, but if you -know- you're gonna run into a lot of them you can ready an action to push one back.  I forget what book it is, but it's a new use for UtF in some book.

Ithorian + Temp FP capacity + lots of force powers = force wizard.  You just have to avoid powers that oppose defenses at higher levels...since high level opponents have defenses that improve faster than your Powers.  (Unless you can squeeze a Destiny Bonus to Use the Force in.  That's ANOTHER +5 that stacks, giving you 15+half level+Cha+d20 vs. your opponent's 10+level+class+Ability)  That's when the high level math doesn't screw you.  Cutting out a lot of factors, it becomes d20+(small number) vs. 1/2 level.  Compared with d20 vs. 1/2 level + small number.  I'm sure someone could make a graph to show where the cutoff points are for Skills vs. Defenses.

Honestly, it's all about what your party has and what they need from you, what enemies there are.  If there's gonna be dark side force users, grab Rebuke once or twice.  If they don't have someone to play with the action economy, throwing together a hit-you-with-the-glowy-stick Jedi that takes Improved Stunning Strike from Elite Trooper (Clone Wars CG) to --eliminate a foe's standard action and move them 2 steps down the CT-- if they're big enough and tough enough to withstand a Powerful Charge.  I'll admit it's kinda my favorite rig, but it WORKS at low levels and high levels.  Grab a collection of powers like Energy Resistance that take a  swift action to maintain...a swift action you don't use as a Jedi anyway.  Negate Energy gives you an alternate defense against a hail of fire.  Tack on a Jetpack for kicks and giggles if you wish, just to screw with people who think that flight will save them.
http://www.atomicsockmonkey.com/freebies/di/pdq-core.pdf  The smallest, shortest, simplest ruleset of any RPG I've ever seen.  If 3.5 is too complex and you don't like 4.0, try this.  It has very few rules and is just short of freeform.

archangel.arcanis

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2010, 07:41:37 PM »
So maybe keep evasion and not worry about the temp points, since I'll likely be using powers intermittently or the trick lordblades mentioned.

Our group doesn't know what it wants yet. I was talking with another player asking what they were playing and their response was what do we need. So lets take the game a step back some. What are the things most every group will need? I can't say much about what the GM will be throwing at us as none of us have played in SW before. From his previous D&D games it will likely be combat vs brutes most of the time. Simple but strong enemies, I would expect some Sith (combat focused) or easy to use soldiers. I wouldn't expect a lot of complex tricks in his character builds so anything not presented as a ready made bad guy probably won't be used or will be infrequent at best.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

bearchucks

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2010, 01:06:03 AM »
Well, things you need in SAGA...and you can take on multiple of them at once but some are better for it than others.

Techie.  This can be a droid, a soldier, a scoundrel...you want a high int and the appropriate skills.  There's just too many good things Use Computer and Mechanics can do for you.  If your DM goes straight from books, Techie can build a droid to cover basic knowledge checks (Protocol Droid Noble1/Jedi1 --Skilled Advisor is a great talent for a belt droid to have).

This bears its own line. Starting with Soldier1 makes you proficient with just about anything you'll find.  Find ways of wearing armor because there are just too many things a suit of 'utility' armor can do for you.  One level in Soldier gets you Armored Defense which takes out the greatest downside of it, and there's just too many things (onboard shield generator, power generator, skill boosting visors, etc. etc. etc.) it can do.

For that matter, a Soldier makes a great "utility" skillmaster.  A good skill list and a fair number of skills/level means that your specialists can cover things that most people don't get.

You want a party face.  It can be a noble or a scoundrel (or a Force user with Mind Trick but that gets dicey), they get largely the same 'social skill set.'

You want a pilot.  Trained in Pilot with the Vehicular Combat feat is usually enough.  Evasion is a nice thing to have because missiles and torpedos are area-effect weapons.  Hash that one out with your DM but it's backed up by the starship-specific sourcebook.

Ideally also you want at least one CT-killer type.  Scoundrel (Dastardly Strike) + Gunslinger aim-based shooter is easy to pull off.

An area-hoser is advisable.  Heavy Blaster Rifle's the best weapon for this you don't need WP: Heavy Weapons for.  (Bear in mind that Starship Weapons are Heavies, so consider that as well)  There's a talent in Legacy CG for Soldiers that provides a -2 to hit to anybody in an autofire's area and a -5 for the Aid Another suppression fire.  And if you're going for autofire, you want a way to kill just one enemy.  Enter Burst Fire, add Controlled Burst from Elite Trooper and for -2 to hit you go up two dice of damage.  Riflemaster (feat or talent I don't remember) makes the heavy rifle do d12s.  Do the math.  =P

Somebody with boosting options (Noble/Officer types) is helpful.
http://www.atomicsockmonkey.com/freebies/di/pdq-core.pdf  The smallest, shortest, simplest ruleset of any RPG I've ever seen.  If 3.5 is too complex and you don't like 4.0, try this.  It has very few rules and is just short of freeform.

archangel.arcanis

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2010, 12:38:58 PM »
obviously if we all go Jedi we won't fill those rolls. GM is inviting another player so we are more likely to be well rounded. I was planning on being the Pilot using the force talent to substitute UTF for pilot but hadn't thought about vehicular combat.

We have one very undecided player, One asking what we need, One who I'm fairly certain will want a Noble, and myself. The undecided talked about doing a very similar character to what I wanted so maybe I'll let them be the Jedi and I take on something else. Perhaps I should go soldier and walk around in power armor  ;). I just have to find a way to deal good damage with guns and have a reason to not kill the party on order 66.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

LordBlades

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2010, 12:47:03 PM »
IIRC (been a while since I played saga), a good way to deal damage with guns is using a repeating blaster(think there is a variant of heavy repating in a splat book that allows bracing without a tripod), burst fire feat and elite trooper to reduce autofire penalties. Base damage for that is somethink like 5d10.

archangel.arcanis

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2010, 12:58:08 PM »
I'll have to look for that. I'm actually considering a Gen'Dai soldier carrying a really big gun, since they are large. Tack on some armor with bonuses and go to town as a walking tank.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

bearchucks

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2010, 04:26:44 PM »
Area Hoser / Burst-Fire + Armor is very doable.  Soldier gives you a bunch of feats and the utility skills, letting the Noble concentrate on stuff you -can't- do.  Your job...is to grab Katarn-class armor out of either Galaxy at War or Clone Wars CG, I forget which, and upgrade the everloving hell out of it.

Most upgradeable armor in the game.  Call yourself a Clone Commando--they were kinda made special to have independent thought and operate without much if any help from command.  Grab a Heavy Blaster Rifle, the Burst Fire feat, the Riflemaster feat to improve your rifle skills (Heavy Rifle goes to d12s, standard blaster rifle becomes an Accurate weapon... (Galaxy At War) Improved Suppression Fire talent from Legacy Era CG (because if you're hosing groups with autofire, it doesn't hurt to give them a -2 to hit.  Also of note, Burst Fire is an Autofire attack that isn't an Area Attack.  So anybody you Burst Fire gets a -2.  I'm sure there's other things that semantic difference covers but I don't recall.  Controlled Burst from Elite Trooper...oh.  

You can -integrate- the rifle into your armor and hook it up to a power generator so it NEVER NEEDS RELOADING.

For your ship...if you start to customize...first thing you wanna crank is SR, because that's what gives you your survivability.  If they don't beat your SR, it doesn't matter if you can't hit them for beans.

http://community.wizards.com/go/forum/viewcategory/75862/Star_Wars174;  This may be of help to you.  The boards on Star Wars.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/19411142/armored_defense_WHY!!!?post_id=330076230#330076230 AHA!  Crazy good armor.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872562/The_Radical_Taoists_SWSE_Build_Archive and a handy collection of things (most pre-errata, but still useful)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 04:58:49 PM by bearchucks »
http://www.atomicsockmonkey.com/freebies/di/pdq-core.pdf  The smallest, shortest, simplest ruleset of any RPG I've ever seen.  If 3.5 is too complex and you don't like 4.0, try this.  It has very few rules and is just short of freeform.

archangel.arcanis

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2010, 06:49:25 PM »
I think I'll try and get that armor and see about adding a generator and weapon mount to it. I don't know what the last slot will be, I wanted a shield generator but those take up way too much space.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

LordBlades

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2010, 06:13:07 AM »
Actually, IIRC the best armor you coud get your hands on is Madanlorian neo-crusader assault armor from Kotor (10 armor bonus, 6 unused upgrade slots) or, if you have acess to material from any era, there's always Dark Trooper Phase III. Katarn class armor from galaxy at war is the best though if you only ahve acess to clone war era technology.

archangel.arcanis

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2010, 11:58:02 AM »
Well if the armor existed before the clone wars it is fair game. I would love to have something like that but I doubt I'll have the money to do it myself for a while.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

LordBlades

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2010, 12:00:30 PM »
Well if the armor existed before the clone wars it is fair game. I would love to have something like that but I doubt I'll have the money to do it myself for a while.

In SW money is a problem only until you hijack your first ship  :D

McPoyo

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Re: SW Saga edition. What should I know?
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2010, 01:30:52 PM »
Or someone plays a noble.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]