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brokenoakleys

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PEACH this new advanced class
« on: July 01, 2008, 05:07:09 PM »
Tema69 is creating a Boxer character, and I thought:  why not have a Boxer advanced class?  I've never boxed in my life, but I once accidently gave someone a bloody nose.  I also listen to Rocky music when I work out, so I thought I'd give it a whirl.   :D

This is a rough draft of an advanced class, so feel free to suggest changes and I'll keep posting revisions.

One thing I keep mulling over is whether boxers should be allowed to use streetfighting while boxing.  Too much damage?

The class assumes RAW when it comes to non-lethal damage, i.e. non-lethal damage only counts if you exceed your opponent's constitution score, and then a saving throw determines if your opponent is dazed one round or knocked unconcious for 1d4 rounds.

THE BOXER

Pre-requisites:  +3 BAB, knockout and brawl feats.
Action points:   Six per level
Hit die:            d8
Skill points:       three per level
Class skills:       Bluff, intimidate, sense motive, profession, read language, write language, current events,
                      popular culture, streetwise, concentration.

Class features by level:

Level One:  The boxer may use knockout or improved knockout punch on an opponent the boxer dazed in the
                 the round immiediately prior to the current round.  May only make one knockout or improved
                 knockout attempt a round, and cannot make any other attacks except AO's and cleaves.

Level Two:  'Shake it Off'.  Normally someone who takes more non-lethal than their constitution must make a
                 saving throw.  If they suceed, they are dazed for one round.

                 If a boxer exceeds the saving throw by five, he is stunned for one round instead.

Level Three:  Boxer gets improved feint, even if he doesn't qualify.  He may only use this feat while brawling
                   with bare hands. 

Level Four:   'Wear'em down'.  Boxers may choose to wear an opponent down with a full round action.
                  The boxer can only make a single attack while using 'wear them down'.  If the boxer hits, the
                  boxer's opponent temporarily loses one constitution point.  If the boxer scores a critical, the
                  opponent temporarily loses two constitution points.  Constitution points are recovered per SRG.

Level Five:    The boxer may use KO or Improved KO on an opponent that the boxer has sucessfully feinted
                   against in the same round or a the round immiediately prior.May only make one knockout or
                   improved knockout attempt a round, and cannot make any other attacks except AO's and
                   cleaves.

Level Six:      'Get up!'  Normally someone who takes more non-lethal than their constitution must make a
                   saving throw.  If they fail, they are unconcious for 1d4 rounds.  A boxer who fails their save by
                   five or less merely falls prone and is dazed instead.

Level Seven:  Bonus Feat from the following:  Improved Brawling, Dodge, Imrpoved Knockout, Agile Riposte,
                   Great Fortitude, Renown.

Level Eight:   'Devestating Uppercut'.  A boxer can use KO or improved KO against any opponent.  Doing so is
                   a full round action and is the only attack the boxer can make besides AO's and cleaves.

                  Alternate rule:  by spending action point, A boxer can use KO or improved KO against any
                   opponent.  The boxer can make over attacks and actions as well.


Level Nine:    If a boxer takes non-lethal damage more than their con, fails his fort save, and becomes
                  unconcious, he can spend and action point and make a comeback.   Instead of falling
                  unconcious, he gets an increase of +2 to STR and CON for 1d6 rounds.  He remains
                  concious at the end of those rounds.  A boxer can only use this power once a day.

LVL 10:         By spending an action point, a boxer may use KO or improved KO to inflict lethal damage on an
                   opponent they dazed the round immiediately prior.  This is the only attack the boxer may make
                   that round other than AO's, and is a full round action.








Tema69

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2008, 09:17:35 PM »
Good stuff there. If we hadn't started yet I'd use this stuff for sure.

I'm gonna get back to you when it's not 0200 a.m. :)
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j0lt

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2008, 03:01:56 AM »
First off, I like it, the class abilities really fit the flavour and are of a fairly reasonable power level.
My only nitpick after looking it over quickly is the format.  All AdCs get a bonus feat at 3rd, 6th, and 9th levels.  Do you think you could re-order it to fit the standard format?
(one other suggestion, name-wise, what do you think of Professional Boxer?)
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Tema69

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2008, 07:37:38 AM »
I agree with Jolt, having a bonus feat at 3rd, 6th and 9th level would be good, that way it fits all the other AdCs around. But that's just formatting.

I think it really looks great, and you've caught the two major elements of boxing (never boxed either, I'm talking from a "whatyouseeinTV"perspective), KOpunch and not going unconscious when hit.

It might need a little individual tweaking, so it fits people's houserules for nonlethal damage, but apart from what I've said before, I can't really find anything I don't like about it.

PS: For KnockOutPunch, we houserule that if you wanna do on a non-flat-footed foe, it takes a full round action, provokes AoO, and takes a -2 to hit. It's inspired/stolen (?) from your posts in the HouseRuleCompilation thread.
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brokenoakleys

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2008, 04:27:42 PM »
Thanks for all the feedback.

As for bonus feats at 3,6 and 9:  I agree that is what other advanced classes get.  Reason I didn't is b/c  I came up with 9 class talents/abilities and didn't have room to have more than one bonus feat slot (which is at level 7, and that could easily be switched).

But you all are right that this does limit the number of bonus feats a boxer gets.  Here are some possible solutions:

1) Cut out two of the class abilities and replace them with bonus feats.  If so, which ones should be cut?  One that could be cut is the current level three, which gives a boxer the improved feint feat.  Instead, improved feint could be added to the bonus feat list.

2) Give the player the option of either getting a bonus feat OR the class ability at levels 3,6 and 9;

3) Combining some of the class abilities so there is room for bonus feats.  If we go with this option, which ones should be combined?  Here are two ideas:

Combine the level one and level five KO abilities so that a boxer can use KO or Improved KO against anyone the boxer has dazed or sucessfully feinted;

Combine the level two and nine abilities to shake off a hit that exceeds constitution.

4)  Say to heck with it, the boxer should be happy with his one bonus feat and can still get other feats through normal level advancement.

Any PEACH would be appreciated. 


Tema69

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2008, 05:19:55 PM »
"Combine the level one and level five KO abilities so that a boxer can use KO or Improved KO against anyone the boxer has dazed or sucessfully feinted"
Good idea.

About the Improved Feint, how about not making it a bonus feat, and instead either allowing the character to make a Bluff check in combat as a move action or giving him a +2 bonus on Bluff checks made to feint in melee combat, which only works when unarmed. That way, you can add a Bonus Feat at the same level, since the Unarmed Minor Improved Feint isn't especially powerful.

See J0lt's post below

IMO:
Level 1: Both Level 1 and Level 5 abilities here.
Level 2: Shake it Off
Level 3: Unarmed Minor Improved Feint + Bonus Feat (add Improved Feint to Bonus Feat list)
Level 4: Wear'em Down
Level 5: Get Up
Level 6: Bonus Feat
Level 7: Devastating Upercut
Level 8: Constitution thingy (from level 9)
Level 9: Bonus Feat
Level 10: Action Point KOPunch
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 10:44:11 AM by Tema69 »
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j0lt

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2008, 10:11:19 AM »
As for bonus feats at 3,6 and 9:  I agree that is what other advanced classes get.  Reason I didn't is b/c  I came up with 9 class talents/abilities and didn't have room to have more than one bonus feat slot (which is at level 7, and that could easily be switched).

1) Cut out two of the class abilities and replace them with bonus feats.  If so, which ones should be cut?  One that could be cut is the current level three, which gives a boxer the improved feint feat.  Instead, improved feint could be added to the bonus feat list.
This is a great idea.  Not all boxers really learn how to feint properly anyways, so it's more optional.
Quote
2) Give the player the option of either getting a bonus feat OR the class ability at levels 3,6 and 9;
I'd recommend against this, it'd just lead to confusion and potential unbalance.
Quote
3) Combining some of the class abilities so there is room for bonus feats.  If we go with this option, which ones should be combined?  Here are two ideas:

Combine the level one and level five KO abilities so that a boxer can use KO or Improved KO against anyone the boxer has dazed or sucessfully feinted;

Combine the level two and nine abilities to shake off a hit that exceeds constitution.
Combining similar abilities is a great idea too.  Give it another shot!
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Tema69

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2008, 10:42:22 AM »
I agree with J0lt, all boxers don't learn to feint, but they can certainly choose to. I'll edit my above table.
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backstabbist

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2008, 07:08:16 PM »
Level10 Ability options:

Ultimate Knock Out
& Beyond


Hit you so hard your
momma is gonna feel it
  Prior to the attack roll, on a KO or ImprovedKO attack the Boxer may spend an
action point to envoke the KO&Beyond.  If the atack is successful, and the target
is KO'ed, all target allies within 10' of the target, and with line of sight to the target,
must make a DC(punch damage) Will Save or suffer Sympathetic Unconsciousness
from the force of the punch to their comrade. 
The SU lasts 1d3 rounds
If the Attack fails, or the target is not KO'ed, the ActionPoint is wasted.
Felling multiple allies is not exploitable with Cleave.

Happy G Haymaker

Cause I'm really a
hockey player not a boxer
  Regardless of other KO/IKO requirements, the Boxer may make a Run-up Haymaker
attack as a Charge ending in a KO punch.  All Charge requirements must be met.  The
HappyG Haymaker allows KO attempts when the target is not flatfooted or otherwise
able to use KO effects on, if the Charge requirements are met.


Psycho Ear Biter

Oh HELL NO.
I'm not fighting him
He's CRAZY.
Once a day the Boxer can use his SmackTalk ability to perform a Ear Biter Psych-Out.
As the first action of a fight, as a full round action, the Boxer may spend 1 AP to forgoe
standard attack rolls and make a Touch Attack roll on the target.  If successful the attack
does 1point damage but forces a WillSave DC20.  If successful, the target gets a +1 Morale
bonus to attack rolls for the remander of that fight.  If the target fails the save, he is
Panicked by the Boxer




edit
ver 1.1a: Will Save changed from DC15 to DC(damage)
ver 1.1b: Added LOS requirement
« Last Edit: July 05, 2008, 06:41:55 PM by backstabbist »
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Tema69

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2008, 06:54:32 PM »
You're sick, 'stabbist.



...in a good and creative way, though. Have a  :cc (we don't have no :cookie smiley here).
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brokenoakleys

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2008, 02:49:24 AM »
Here is a revised version.  Thanks very much to everyone who PEACHED, you all were just PEACHY. :lol

Revisions include:

Combining abilities to resist going unconcious;
Doing away with improved feint as a class feat (you may get it as a bonus feat);
Allowing three bonus feats;
Adding some boxing slang for flavor.

THE BOXER-TAKE TWO.

Pre-requisites:  +3 BAB, knockout and brawl feats.
Action points:   Six per level
Hit die:            d8
Skill points:       three per level
Class skills:       Bluff, intimidate, sense motive, profession, read language, write language, current events,
                      popular culture, streetwise, concentration.

For BAB, defense and saving throws, I am thinking either strong or martial artist stats. 
Thoughts on that? ???

Class features by level:

Level One:  The boxer may use knockout or improved knockout punch on an opponent the boxer dazed in the
                 the round immiediately prior to the current round.  May only make one knockout or improved
                 knockout attempt a round, and cannot make any other attacks except AO's and cleaves.

Level Two:  'Iron Chin'.  Normally someone who takes more non-lethal than their constitution must make a
                 fort saving throw.  If they suceed, they are dazed for one round.  If they fail, they are knocked
                 unconcious for 1d4 rounds.

                 *If a boxer exceeds the saving throw by five, he is stunned for one round instead instead of
                 being dazed.

                 *If the boxer fails the fort save by five or less, they are knocked prone and dazed instead.

Level Three:  Bonus Feat:  choose from Improved Brawling, Dodge, Imrpoved Knockout, Agile Riposte,
                   Great Fortitude, Renown and Improved Feint.  Must meet pre-requisites.

Level Four:   'Liver Punch'.  Boxers may choose to wear an opponent down by hitting the ribs and liver
                  with a full round action, makes it difficult for opponenent to breath (also makes them sick).

                  The boxer can only make a single attack while executing a liver punch.  If the boxer hits, the
                  boxer's opponent temporarily loses one constitution point.  If the boxer scores a critical, the
                  opponent temporarily loses two constitution points.  Constitution points are recovered per SRG.
                  Boxer cannnot make any other attacks that round other than AO's.

Level Five:    The boxer may use KO or Improved KO on an opponent that the boxer has sucessfully feinted
                   against in the same round or a the round immiediately prior. May only make one knockout or
                   improved knockout attempt a round, and cannot make any other attacks except AO's and
                   cleaves.

Level Six:      Bonus Feat:  choose from Improved Brawling, Dodge, Imrpoved Knockout, Agile Riposte,
                   Great Fortitude, Renown and Improved Feint.  Must meet pre-requisites.

Level Seven:  'Comeback':  If a boxer takes non-lethal damage more than their con, fails his fort
                    save, and becomes unconcious, he can spend and action point and make a comeback.
                   Instead of falling unconcious, he gets an increase of +2 to STR and CON for 1d6 rounds.
                   He remains concious at the end of those rounds.  A boxer can only use this power once a day.

Level Eight:   'Devestating Uppercut'.  A boxer can use KO or improved KO against any opponent.  Doing so is
                   a full round action and is the only attack the boxer can make besides AO's and cleaves.

Level nine:     Bonus Feat:  choose from Improved Brawling, Dodge, Imrpoved Knockout, Agile Riposte,
                   Great Fortitude, Renown and Improved Feint.  Must meet pre-requisites.

LVL 10:         'Rabbit Punch':  named after the chop to the neck used to kill rabbits, very dangerous because
                   it can sever a human's brain stem.  By spending an action point, a boxer may use KO or
                   improved KO to inflict lethal damage on an opponent they dazed or sucessfully feinted
                   against
the round immiediately prior.  This is the only attack the boxer may make that
                   round other than AO's, and is a full round action.


Class ability substitution:  A boxer may take backstabbist's 'Happy G Haymaker' instead of 'Liver Punch'.

'Happy G Haymaker':  Regardless of other KO/IKO requirements, the Boxer may make
a Run-up Haymakerattack as a Charge ending in a KO punch.  All Charge requirements must be met.  The
HappyG Haymaker allows KO attempts when the target is not flatfooted or otherwise
able to use KO effects on, if the Charge requirements are met.

Now for some fun.... ;)

Character gets +2 to both hit, 4x damage and gain three reputation points if the following conditions are met while using the Happy-G Haymaker AKA Jerry Springer Special':

1)  Character is on the Jerry Springer show while attacking, and 
2)  They just found out their 'ole man/'ole lady has been CENSORED with another guest; :mad
2)  the guest who has been CENSORED with their ole lady/man is on the show and is the intended target of the attack.  :o







 

Tema69

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2008, 08:19:05 AM »
Looks really neat. :clap
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j0lt

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2008, 10:17:25 AM »
Looks really good!  I'd suggest adding a few more feats to the bonus feat list, but if you can't find any that work then it's not really that big a deal.
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Tema69

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2008, 12:42:20 PM »
Yeah, a few more feats could be good, I forgot to add that to my post above.
How about StreetFighting?
As for BAB, go 1/1 (or 1/1 Melee and 1/2 Ranged if you're using SplitBAB).
For Defense, I'd go with Strong, since boxers seem to be more about taking punches than dodging them. But Class Defense also represents that, so I dunno.
Saves, I'd go with best Fort, average Reflex and low Will. Possibly Average Will, as the class is slightly underpowered IMO.

I know the class already has abilities enough, but I got a few ideas:
- Being able to perform AoO unarmed (which would be reflected by their dansing around waiting for the other to open up so that they can take advantage of it = AoO);
- Mitigating the penalty for dealing lethal damage with a non-lethal unarmed attack;
- and yeah, that was it... :)
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Doctor Monocle

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2008, 02:58:41 PM »
A couple more feat ideas:

Float like a butterfly: Pre req: Bluff skill 5+, Dodge Feat Due to fancy footwork, the Boxer can evade attacks with greater ease This feat increases the boxer's Dodge bonus to defense by an additional +2  It stacks with the Normal +1 for the Dodge feat.

Sting like a bee: Pre req: Intelligence 12+, Improved Brawling Due to carefully aimed attacks, The Boxer can hit an opponent in places that inflict the most damage. When using unarmed attacks, the Boxer can add his Intelligence bonus to his unarmed damage.

---Doctor Monocle

brokenoakleys

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2008, 07:53:25 PM »
Thanks again for all the feedback.

Jolt and Tema:  A couple of more bonus feats would be a good idea  how about we add improved initiative and heroic surge?  as well as streetfighting., defensive martial arts and endurance.

Tema:   methinks you are correct that this class is a wee bit underpowered.  As I designed it to simulate a boxer in a boxing round, not an adventurer, the class does have a few weaknesses, including:

*Being considered unarmed since he's brawling, and
*Except for the rabbit punch, only being able to deal non-lethal damage.

Bottom line is you're going to have someone suffering a lot of AO's while they try to dish out non-lethal KO's.  So here are a couple of ideas I'm thinking about:

*allowing the boxer to include streetfighting damage in attacks (unless he's in a boxing match);

*including the rather powerful feats of heroic surge and improved initiative in the bonus feats;

*raising hit die to d10 or d12;

*At a certain level, alllowing the boxer to be considered armed for AO purposes even if doing non-lethal;

* Expanding the bonus feats to include the ones Backstabbist and Dr. Monocle have created.

Dr. Monocle's float like a butterfly got me thinking about adapting a 4E kobold feat called 'shifty', which allows kobolds to shit two squares instead of the normal one.  Very handy feat in combat, and would simulate a boxer's ability to dance around.

As for BAB and saves, I think the strong class would be best.



 


Tema69

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2008, 08:11:48 PM »
*including the rather powerful feats of heroic surge and improved initiative in the bonus feats;
Sure, go ahead.
*raising hit die to d10 or d12;
More hit points don't work well with the Nonlethal damage system of d20 Modern, so IMHO, don't give an unarmed brawler more HP. Perhaps 1d10 though, but I'd say 1d8, and certainly not 1d12.
*At a certain level, alllowing the boxer to be considered armed for AO purposes even if doing non-lethal;
I think this would balance it quite fairly for an adventurer.
...which allows kobolds to shit two squares instead of the normal one.
I'm sorry, what? :)
As for BAB and saves, I think the strong class would be best.
Agreed.
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Doctor Monocle

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2008, 08:23:50 PM »
Thanks again for all the feedback.
*... which allows kobolds to shit two squares instead of the normal one.  Very handy feat in combat, and would simulate a boxer's ability to dance around.

Well one would think that if one ate 2 squares per day then one would....oh never mind  ;)

That must be a new 4E feat..a sort of natural defense for kobolds to make them unappetising to predators.
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backstabbist

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2008, 03:18:48 AM »
"which allows kobolds to shit two squares "
I'm no doctor, but that has gotta hurt.


And that, my friends, is why I'm not a Kobald.
I can be small, I can be sneavious, but that "two squares" part is a deal breaker.
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j0lt

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Re: PEACH this new advanced class
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2008, 04:45:41 AM »
lol, best typo EVAR!   ??? :lol :clap
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