Author Topic: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.  (Read 22400 times)

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Kaelik

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3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« on: September 16, 2010, 01:39:44 AM »
I would like to play one of the following modules:

Red Hand of Doom
City of the Spider Queen
Expedition to Undermountain
[Possible additions here]

With one of these classes (in order of preference):
Force Potentate
Time Mage
Storm Lord
Snowscaper
Elemental Siphon
[Others may be added]

I of course require a DM and a party to do so. Looking for that here.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 11:30:08 PM by Kaelik »

jameswilliamogle

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2010, 01:55:52 PM »
I haven't played any of those either, and am interested in all.
I also haven't played Shackled City, or any of the newer Paizo games.

I'd be interested in playing any class with any race, though I'll match the power level of the game (generally, I'm a bit underpowered, as I play unique combinations as compared to known power combinations).

I don't DM.

Mixster

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2010, 03:44:45 PM »
I haven't played any either, but if a DM comes along, I can join with a Spell To Power Erudite if needed.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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Kaelik

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2010, 11:17:01 PM »
I also haven't played Shackled City, or any of the newer Paizo games.

Yeah I have no idea about those I have yet to hear reliable word on their quality, unlike the three listed.

kevin_video

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2010, 03:00:10 AM »
I've played City of the Spider Queen IRL, but we never finished it. I've heard of the others though, and wouldn't mind playing them.
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Thistledown Thurbertaut

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2010, 07:17:39 PM »
An army of players and no one wants to DM....  :(

kevin_video

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2010, 08:33:50 PM »
An army of players and no one wants to DM....  :(
I'm considering it, but I'm DMing another game so far on another site, and I've come to learn that you REALLY have to watch what you type or people will take everything the wrong way, and you end up back tracking, a lot.
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X-Codes

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2010, 03:56:59 AM »
I've played City of the Spider Queen IRL, but we never finished it. I've heard of the others though, and wouldn't mind playing them.
I played it on VTT software, and we did finish it.  It's a nice module, but it's not really challenging at all for a party with even one T1 character in it.  I would strongly encourage a T3 party makeup if you run that one.

Red Hand of Doom, on the other hand... that sounds like something that would be really interesting with T1 characters and rules from Heroes of Battle.

kevin_video

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2010, 04:08:19 AM »
I've played City of the Spider Queen IRL, but we never finished it. I've heard of the others though, and wouldn't mind playing them.
I played it on VTT software, and we did finish it.  It's a nice module, but it's not really challenging at all for a party with even one T1 character in it.  I would strongly encourage a T3 party makeup if you run that one.

Red Hand of Doom, on the other hand... that sounds like something that would be really interesting with T1 characters and rules from Heroes of Battle.
When we did City of the Spider Queen, the DM made all of the characters. We were all drow, with the exception of one guy who was also half-fiend. It was core books only. My character was a monk/shadow dancer. There were no T1 characters in that group. We most definitely were not effective in that campaign.
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Shadowhunter

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2010, 11:32:39 AM »
Note that Red Hand of Doom will be pretty easy for a tier 1-2 party.

Without spoiling much, at one point in the adventure, you're up against a CR "your level +2" encounter.
The designers note that it's arbitrary "high" (snicker, yeah.. riiight) because it is their intention that it will be the only encounter that day and as such the party ought to be able to handle it if they uses up most of their spells/hp/whatnot.

This, in and of itself, is not a problematic assumption. The problem is that the encounter is way to easy for that to happen.
I ran a five-man party, normal starting level, competently optimized (Binder, Druid, Sorc, Crusader, Ranger/Scout).

The opposition was completely butchered (and that includes the reinforcements) by a single Entangle, some skirmish damage-enhanced arrows and occasional lightning bolts courtesy of Focalor.
The sorcerer didn't do anything useful apart from what was mostly my call as a DM (Gust of Wind blew away the scroll one enemy was reading so the spell got lost), but otherwise was just bored and created a lot of caltrops in front of him.
The crusader did absolutely nothing, since he didn't want to wade into the Entangle field and get stuck.

So the encounter was neutralized with 1 spell and lots of arrows.


We didn't get much further into the campaign after that point, but it wasn't that hard.
It's still a neat campaign, but it isn't in the same league as tier 1-2 characters really.

I think no one is surprised.
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
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bearsarebrown

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2010, 07:01:03 PM »
Using Tome classes in unmodified modules will leave to results similar to what Shadowhunter said.

X-Codes

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2010, 07:43:00 PM »
I've played City of the Spider Queen IRL, but we never finished it. I've heard of the others though, and wouldn't mind playing them.
I played it on VTT software, and we did finish it.  It's a nice module, but it's not really challenging at all for a party with even one T1 character in it.  I would strongly encourage a T3 party makeup if you run that one.

Red Hand of Doom, on the other hand... that sounds like something that would be really interesting with T1 characters and rules from Heroes of Battle.
When we did City of the Spider Queen, the DM made all of the characters. We were all drow, with the exception of one guy who was also half-fiend. It was core books only. My character was a monk/shadow dancer. There were no T1 characters in that group. We most definitely were not effective in that campaign.
There's a HUGE difference between "T3 characters" and having everyone play Monk/Shadow Dancers eating +2 to +6 LA.  A group setup of a Factotum, Crusader, Bard, and Psywar can pretty well destroy the mod.

kevin_video

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2010, 01:13:53 AM »
I've played City of the Spider Queen IRL, but we never finished it. I've heard of the others though, and wouldn't mind playing them.
I played it on VTT software, and we did finish it.  It's a nice module, but it's not really challenging at all for a party with even one T1 character in it.  I would strongly encourage a T3 party makeup if you run that one.

Red Hand of Doom, on the other hand... that sounds like something that would be really interesting with T1 characters and rules from Heroes of Battle.
When we did City of the Spider Queen, the DM made all of the characters. We were all drow, with the exception of one guy who was also half-fiend. It was core books only. My character was a monk/shadow dancer. There were no T1 characters in that group. We most definitely were not effective in that campaign.
There's a HUGE difference between "T3 characters" and having everyone play Monk/Shadow Dancers eating +2 to +6 LA.  A group setup of a Factotum, Crusader, Bard, and Psywar can pretty well destroy the mod.
Only if you don't adjust it accordingly. We were all ECL 12, and it was meant for ECL 10, and we still couldn't win. You'd think having a +2 LA making you two ECL higher than what the module requested would help. Not so. Everyone wasn't a monk/shadowdancer drow that. That was just me. The others were all drow too, but you had a half-fiend fighter, a barbarian, a rogue/assassin, a cleric/thaumaturgist, and a wizard/rogue/arcane trickster. There was also a fighter/blackguard, but he wasn't available most sessions. As you can tell, he was a "core only" kind of DM. No bards though.
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X-Codes

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2010, 05:11:50 AM »
Ok, just because you're ECL 12 doesn't mean you're as good as a 12th-level character.  What's more, if your DM gave you experience as an ECL 12 party, you're not only going to be significantly less powerful than a 12th-level character, but you're also going to level up slower over the course of the module and be even more underpowered by the end.  Also, that party is just plain terrible.

The Half-Fiend Fighter is a T6 character.  It doesn't have the attack rolls, HP, or really enough of anything to do well in the CotSQ module.  All any caster in the module had to do was cast Circle of Death and he'd go down.

The Blackguard and Shadowdancer are both T5 characters with all sources allowed, Blackguard might be T6 as well if you don't have Complete Warrior and Complete Divine.  The Shadowdancer suffers, however, because everything in the module has Darkvision.  Literally, everything.

The Assassin is low T4 at best, but it's going to SERIOUSLY underperform because of the myriad of creatures in the module that are either resistant or immune to sneak attacks.

The Arcane Trickster is either T3 or T4, depending on how it's built, but it suffers the same problems that the Assassin does in that it's sneak attacks are not going to be effective through most of the module.

The Cleric looks like it could have been a solidly-built T1 character.  That said, it's going to be the only character not having trouble in this module, and there's probably not enough going on here for the Cleric to be able to get through this module on it's own.

As for my interest in playing Tier 1 in the Red Hand of Doom campaign, I mean I want to be part of the most powerful party that can be rolled up and take on the whole army.  It is statted out in the back of the book, afterall.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 05:13:24 AM by X-Codes »

kevin_video

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2010, 05:35:45 AM »
The CotSQ module is for 10th level characters. Being ECL 12 means we're two levels higher thanks to the LA, but it still didn't mean anything. And it was the half fiend who hit the most. The DM chose the spells for the cleric so I don't know how effective she was. But yeah, it was all his game, and back then you didn't hear any talk of tier classes. Even now, this forum site is the only place I've ever even heard of it from any D&D player.

I wonder how large of a party of ECL 12 characters would be needed to take out all of those pages worth of enemies.
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X-Codes

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2010, 06:19:02 AM »
The CotSQ module is for 10th level characters. Being ECL 12 means we're two levels higher thanks to the LA, but it still didn't mean anything. And it was the half fiend who hit the most. The DM chose the spells for the cleric so I don't know how effective she was. But yeah, it was all his game, and back then you didn't hear any talk of tier classes. Even now, this forum site is the only place I've ever even heard of it from any D&D player.
Of course being ECL 12 doesn't mean anything.  When an optimized first-level kobold can destroy the multiverse, the whole idea of ECL having anything at all to do with how powerful a character is goes right out the window.  That's why the members of 339 developed the tier system for classes, because we wanted to categorize just how awesome Wizards are and just how badly CW Samurai suck.

What I'm saying is that a decently-built group of Tier 3 characters starting at level 10 will destroy that module, as follows:

1st Character) Factotum, deals with the traps and does most of the physically-oriented skillmonkeying stuff.  Makes a highly capable scout/infiltrator, deals solid damage in combat, and intense amounts of versatility thanks to UMD and it's spell-like abilities.

2nd Character) Warlock, has some solid tricks for battlefield control and can see through darkness spells, making it an invaluable addition to a mod full of Drow.  Can possibly even go Chameleon at later levels to craft magic items for the party.

3rd Character) Crusader.  Supposed to be the tank and a solid source of damage output for the party, even though it's not necessarily the best hitter in the group.

4th Character) Bard.  Inspire Courage, especially when augmented with Dragonfire Inspiration and Haste, and added to a party consisting of a Warlock, Archery Bard, Archery Factotum, and a heavy ToB meleeist, will cause the party to lay down some serious hurt on anything and everything in the module.  Can even use wands of Cure Light Wounds without UMD checks.

If you want a group of 6, then add a Swift Hunter for some truly sick damage output and bring in a Psychic Warrior for another heavy front-liner.  Given enough scrolls for spells like Heal, Restoration, and Greater Restoration to undo the various nasty conditions that monsters in this module inflict (all of which can be crafted by the Warlock), this party just walks through this campaign with little difficulty.

Kaelik

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2010, 11:28:47 PM »
1) I at no point meant for the module to be unmodified. I've heard these are relatively good/hard, but that just means it's easier to modify, not that it wouldn't be changed at all.

2) I think there may be a DM coming up, though it might move to another forum.

kevin_video

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2010, 12:06:45 AM »
2) I think there may be a DM coming up, though it might move to another forum.
Regardless of whether or not it goes somewhere else, I'm cool with another game starting up.
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oslecamo

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2010, 07:21:29 PM »
Hello there. I'm the DM Kaelik spoke off. I'll be running City of the Spider Queen

Now to the character building rules:

Level: 10

House Rules (read carefully, a mix of tome rules and other stuff)
[spoiler]
Equipment
[spoiler]
-Basic item creation rules all gone.
-Because of the above, there's no artificers in existence.
-All characters have a number of spirit points equal to the original Wealth By Level.
-Characters may attune equipment up to their capacity of spirit points, attuning an item being a free action, but releasing attunement being a full day. You can attune something that someone else is attuned to, but it takes a full day to break the other person's attunement.
Any attuned equipment can be used, regardless of who attuned the item.
-Expendable items costs spirit points equal to the value of the charges used.
Lost spirit points(i.e. via expended items or destroyed equipment) recover at the rate of 1% of the character's WBL per day, up to a maximum of his WBL.
-A character can turn any equipment he has used regularly for at least a week into any standard magic item of the same type by expending it's new value in spirit points. He can convert a lesser magic item into an enhanced version of itself this way. Major Artifacts cannot be altered in this manner unless specifically stated otherwise. Lesser Artifacts can be so modified if the character is capable of creating artifacts and is at least as powerful as the original creator.
-Equipment can be attuned for less than their maximum value, if they have a lesser version. If a character invests the value of a +2 Belt of Strength into a +6 Belt of Strength, he gains only the benefit of a +2 Belt of Strength.
-You cannot cast spells from scrolls, they just exist to teach wizards and archivists.
-Wands/staffs/other items with charges must be always fully charged when you make them.
-Expensive spell components must be supplied by this method as well.
-No candles of invocation

So basically you're always assured to have the equipment suitable for your level. You cannot use extra equipment you find, and if you lose something you can pick up any left mundane item and turn it into magic stuff by yourself.
[/spoiler]
-Diplomacy won't turn people into your slaves (neither will bluff).
-Monsters with Wish SLA are all unique creatures and thus cannot be called by normal spells. Because 9th level spell spam is silly.
-You get exp for completing objectives, not necessarily killing stuff.
-Everybody with  13+ Str gets power attack for free.
[/spoiler]

Books allowed: everything printed by Wotc for 3e, including 3.0 stuff like Arms and Equipment guide and Oriental Adventures. Dragon magazine allowed in a case by case basis.

Homebrew:I'm open to homebrew, as long as I get to review it before. I may tweak stuff and I don't like.  Tome classes and feats should be ok as Kaelik intends to use them. Rest of the Tome rules however will not be used however. My homebrew rules should take care of most gear problems.

Power Level: As pointed above the power level is pretty high, but even I have limits. Codzilla, Abrupt jaunt wizard are ok (if you're still in range and line of effect of the attack after you jaunt you're still hit mind you), Incantrix/Cheater of Mystra/Spell to Power Erudite/Planar Sheperd are not.

Stats:
32 Point buy

HP: Max at first level, then either roll or take average.

Flaws and traits:
Two flaws and one trait per character.


Setting notes:
City of the spider queen will take you trough the underdark. Due to it's nature, teleport effects have a considerable chance of going wonky. Short range teleports should be fine. Trying to move more than one mile by teleport will certainly result in something nasty. Trying to make your own tunnels is certain to atract the atention of things you do not want to atract. I'll also be pimping out the original ecounters to suit the new power level. As a final note, you're not the only ones moving. Stop to regain spells after every battle and your enemies will just get stronger.

Now that should be everything. Ask away any doubts.

archangel.arcanis

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Re: 3.5 One of these Modules, DM needed.
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2010, 07:41:38 PM »
I may be interested in this. Though I'm in a few games already so i'll wait and see if there is an opening after those who haven't had much chance to play have gotten in.
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