Author Topic: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)  (Read 4594 times)

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WandererTJ

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Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« on: September 13, 2010, 04:31:15 AM »
level 3, rolls for stats, and We are limited to "if it's in a D&D book we can use it" (I'm prefering to stay in WOTC books and Faerun books).
The race I chose was Fire Genasi (FR: Faerun), as it is a very fun race and I've played it before. The Fire Genasi is basically a human with fire in his veins. He gains the Racial Feat: Healing Flames, which causes you to heal from the energy of flames, however, as you are still human, the flames can still hurt you. You heal if you are next to fire or in fire/hit by fire, but if you are in fire/on fire/whatever, you must roll to see if you take damage from the fire.

***Basically, I wanted to make a Gish class around this Feat(Healing Flames). The premise of this class, is that basically I plan to "Fireball Hug"Medium Armor, I am not interested in Heavy, and a Shield is only optional, not necessary. I have noticed many casting classes with Light Armor Proficiency, so I will probably just make it easy and take the feat Battle Caster to be able to use Medium armor at a Later level.

Here are some specs I already plan to have on my character:
The Campaign will be based in Faerun, and in Faerun each character has a region they originate from and it is based on Race-OR-Class. Due to the fact that I will be some form of Fighter-Mage hybrid, I can use a Fighter's origin, and start from the Region Tashalar. Tashalars get the Free Bonus Equipment Masterwork Hide armor and a Darkwood shield, and from that, I'm taking the masterwork hide armor as a Dragonhide Medium Armor w/+8AC/+4MaxDex bonus(for free), which allows me to use my 2700 starting gold elsewhere. I will also be taking a decreased rate of spellfailure since I can cast in light without failure.
Now, there is a Feat known as Bloodline of Fire which allows +4 on saving throws vs fire, as well as you can Cast Spells with the [Fire] Descriptor at +2 Caster Level. The only catch for me to get this, is I need 2 Ranks to Knowledge(Local:Calishan) which is no problem, and with that, I can access all the Regional Feats of Cashalan.

Also, from Tome of Magic, for the price of a Feat, I am taking Vestige Bond: Aym, which gives me: Halo of Fire(At will), Prof w/Medium Armor as well as I can move at Normal Speed in Medium Armor, Fire Resist of 10Think about this while in Medium Armor with the VestigeElemental Bloodline does the following: 25% Chance to turn a Sneak Attack or Critical hit into a Normal Attack as if wearing Light Fortitude Armor(Does not Stack), and +4 vs Poison, Sleep, Paralysis, and Stunning.

Healing Flames [General]
You can draw energy from open flames to heal yourself.  (How this will work is that if I am next to a flame, I will heal. If I am in a fire/on fire/or hit by a fire spell, I will heal, but I must also roll to avoid taking damage from the fire)
Prerequisites: BASE WILL SAVE +3, fire genasi or tanarukk.
Fire Size        Example      Hit Points Healed
Fine             Tindertwig           1
Diminutive       Torch             1d3
Tiny          Small campfire      1d6
Small        Large campfire      2d6
Medium-size        Forge         3d6
Large             Bonfire            4d6
Huge     Burning shack or tree   5d6
Gargantuan    Burning tavern    6d6
Colossal     Burning inn         7d6

Based on all of the above, In terms of avoiding taking fire damage, at lvl 5, I will have +2 vs Fire Spells and Effects, +4 on Saving Throws vs Fire, and a Fire Resist of 10

While this is subject to change depending on my class, my stats are: STR(17) DEX(14) CON(18) INT(18+2) WIS(14) CHA(16-2) by means of rolling them.

So with all that said, I would like to know what the best course of action would be so that I can do what I plan on. I looked at Duskblade, but it's spell progression is very slow, and as for the other Combat Casting classes, I didnt really see one that screamed out to me.

I'm currently trying to do a Battle Sorcerer, which seemed ok, but I noticed a thread that said being a battle sorcerer was a trap, so please try and help me with what I'm trying to do.  Also, the -2 Charisma from the race doesnt help being a Sorcerer Class much.  But I have considered looking into going along with a build like this: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/True_Battle_Sorcerer_%283.5e_Optimized_Character_Build%29 where I prestige to Abjurant Champion

Typically speaking, when I play with my friends, I'm always the guy that chooses Fighter to be not the tank, or hard hitter, but just that one guy that's there and does some Aggro so other people dont die.  The reason I mention this is just to inform you all that I'm not usually a caster and dont know all the tips and tricks to being one

Also, I have gotten my DM to approve a homebrew weapon - The Kilij(Scimitar): 1Hand, dmg 1d8, crit 18-20x3, range 5ft, type slash, cost 400gp, however it is an Exotic Weapon, and I am unsure whether or not I should spent a feat in order to be proficient with this weapon(but think about adding keen to the weapon ;) ).
I will otherwise probably use the Great Scimitar: 1Hand Exotic (or) 2Hand Martial, dmg 1d8, crit 18-20x2, range 5ft, type slash, cost 200gp, special Half-and-Half(idk what this means).

Anyways, any help as to how I should choose my other feats and my class and how to optimize my character would be awesome and greatly appreciated
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 04:43:00 AM by WandererTJ »

PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2010, 05:02:41 AM »
You do realize that RAW the healing from fire damage is only for your control flame SLA, right?
[Spoiler]
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An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
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And healed. Don't forget that.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2010, 05:14:44 AM »
You do realize that RAW the healing from fire damage is only for your control flame SLA, right?
Which is one of the reasons why it's not that good (you get control flames like 1/day, or 3/day with magic in the blood, and the healing isn't that good, and it takes an action, and immediate action spells wouldn't be counteractable since they typically don't start fires.)

A lesser Mechantrix (Fiend folio) works more like that (heals from anything that would deal electricity damage at a 3-1 ratio).  You can adapt most of your build to use that race instead, and the stats are pretty good for a gish anyway (-2dex,+2con,+2 int, -2 cha).

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WandererTJ

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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2010, 10:49:44 AM »
You do realize that RAW the healing from fire damage is only for your control flame SLA, right?

I have a very lenient DM, and I can heal from just about any fire, not just my Control Flame ability, which would be entirely too lame.

...........What is RAW?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 10:51:54 AM by WandererTJ »

Bauglir

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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2010, 11:04:37 AM »
You do realize that RAW the healing from fire damage is only for your control flame SLA, right?

I have a very lenient DM, and I can heal from just about any fire, not just my Control Flame ability, which would be entirely too lame.

...........What is RAW?

Rules As Written, which just means the literal wording of the rules. Incidentally, taking Bind Vestige only gets you Ruinous Attack and, with the cost of a second feat, the Fire Resistance, for binding Aym. You need to take a level of Binder to get the full abilities. Also, I'm not sure what armor you're using. The only armor I'm aware of that gives a +8 to AC to start with is Full Plate, which is not Medium armor and has only a +1 Max Dex bonus. As for your weapon, since you got your DM to improve something that amazing, you should spend the feat (although given that you'd be spending a feat to use it, I can see the argument for it being balanced, but it's still quite nice with that threat range and multiplier). As for your class: Battle Sorcerer is considered a trap because it reduces your spellcasting ability; strictly speaking, it's weaker than a standard Sorcerer, but it can still be useful for a Gish if you don't need many spells known to accomplish your goals. You could try Duskblade from the PHB2, it's a reasonably effective gish, although it doesn't end up as powerful as some other combinations in the long run. It's quite useful for level 3, though, when you don't have enough class levels to accomplish a Gish very well, since really powerful ones usually involve some Prestige Class trickery to keep high base attack bonus and spell progression simultaneously.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

WandererTJ

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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2010, 11:32:52 AM »
I've never heard of having to take 2 feats for Vestige Bond, and since I havent before now, I'm pretty sure my DM isnt going to care. But I have not used Ruinous attack before, is that Vestige specific, or do all vestiges give that to you?

As for the Dragonhide Full Plate Medium armor, I looked everywhere(except the location you will probably tell me I didnt look) for where all of its stats were, but could find none, I confirmed with one of my friends and he said to just go with +8/+4. As hide is in the name, I have assumed it to be like hide, and therefore Medium and not Heavy.

Again, I havent played D&D too much, and I appreciate everyone's criticism, so I thank you all. I would definitely enjoy you all helping me with the build I'm trying for, as well as possibly a build that actually is RAW that goes for the same concept that I am going for.

I'm glad I didnt come up with something and upload it as a PEACH, I wouldve been ripped a new one lol

Bauglir

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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2010, 12:31:37 PM »
I've never heard of having to take 2 feats for Vestige Bond, and since I havent before now, I'm pretty sure my DM isnt going to care. But I have not used Ruinous attack before, is that Vestige specific, or do all vestiges give that to you?

As for the Dragonhide Full Plate Medium armor, I looked everywhere(except the location you will probably tell me I didnt look) for where all of its stats were, but could find none, I confirmed with one of my friends and he said to just go with +8/+4. As hide is in the name, I have assumed it to be like hide, and therefore Medium and not Heavy.

Again, I havent played D&D too much, and I appreciate everyone's criticism, so I thank you all. I would definitely enjoy you all helping me with the build I'm trying for, as well as possibly a build that actually is RAW that goes for the same concept that I am going for.

I'm glad I didnt come up with something and upload it as a PEACH, I wouldve been ripped a new one lol

Well, the feat Bind Vestige specifically only grants a single ability of the vestige, and that ability for Aym is her Ruinous Attack. You can take Improved Bind Vestige to gain another ability, which for Aym is Fire Resistance 10.

Quote from: Tome of Magic Page 72

As for stats, you need to use the rules for special materials: you use the statistics for normal full plate, only with the changes provided by Dragonhide, under the Special Materials section, which are as follows.

Quote from: SRD

Which just means it functions exactly like normal armor, only it's not made of metal and costs twice as much. Hide armor is a specific kind of armor made from more traditional leather, and only provides the benefits listed for it in the table. Interestingly, dragonhide is apparently too hard to make hide armor out of, as you can only make metal objects out of it and hide armor isn't metal. Or, at least, there are no changes to hide armor's game statistics if it's made of dragonhide.

All that said, if your group's ok with it, that's great. Personally, I sometimes do find the rules as they're written to be a little confining (there's an entire section of this forum dedicated to writing new rules to take the game to places it ordinarily can't), so I'm not going to say you're doing it wrong just because you're not adhering literally to them. It's just that I want to make sure we're all on the same page with what is or isn't legit for your game, and my default is the printed rules.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

WandererTJ

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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2010, 01:30:49 PM »
My only question to what you have posted for dragonhide full plate is: is it considered to be medium or heavy? I have not seen anything referring to this, which is my main concern.  I do not care about the Dex bonus, that's just the value my friend told me it would be.

Bauglir

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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2010, 01:40:48 PM »
Well, it should be heavy; the rules for dragonhide don't mention any change to an armor's weight category (as you say, they mention nothing, so nothing changes), so Full Plate won't change. Possible solution: 4 levels of Duskblade (if you choose that) gives you the ability to cast in medium armor with no chance of failure, and you can use Battle Caster to boost that to heavy armor. Alternatively, if you can swing Mithral Full Plate somehow, that'll do the trick too.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

WandererTJ

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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2010, 02:45:04 PM »
Well as I mentioned above, I'm not that interested in Heavy Armor, especially if I can just use Dragonhide Full Plate as Medium Armor. HOWEVER, If for some reason it would be beneficial for me to be able to cast in Heavy Plate without Spell Failure, I would like to hear the reason, but as it stands, it is already difficult enough(IMO) to be able to use Medium Armor in such a build.

As for Dusk blade, I wrote up a character sheet for one to wind up just disliking it for its limited casting ability(But I am definitely considering a level in it for the Arcane Attunement, because I dont know of any other way to get such an ability).
Yesterday I was looking to see if there was anything else besides Fighter that gets BAB +1 at first level as well as the bonus feat, but I'm pretty sure it's the only one, however, for me, taking a level in Dusk Blade might be really good as well.

So as is, I am Considering The Following (However, I'm sure you all may know of a better route to take than what I am, which is why I have come to you all)
Lvl1-Fighter(Fighter at lvl 1 just because of the higher hit die) or maybe the Armored Mage Fighter Variant
Lvl2-Battle Sorc
Lvl3-Battle Sorc
Until I get BAB=5 so that I can go with Abjurant Champion
OR
Lvl1-Battle Sorc
Lvl2-Battle Sorc
Lvl3-Battle Sorc
Lvl4-Dusk Blade

Currently, since I do already have Armored Mage(Light), I am trying to get my DM to allow me if I take a Lvl in Duskblade, that I could hopefully trade it's Lvl1 Feat of the same name for an alternative feat.  I could be broken and substitute Battle Caster, but that would just be wrong lol.
I personally just have issues with Multiclassing into the other Gish classes because they all have Armored Mage(Light) at first level and it seems kind of retarded to do something like that

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2010, 03:02:48 PM »
Mithril Fullplate is considered medium. So you could go that route.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2010, 03:10:26 PM »
If you'd normally take 3 damage, you instead heal 1 damage.

Normal mechantrixes are LA+1 outsiders, lesser mechantrixes are LA+0 Humanoid(planetouched).  Same as genasi.

Racial stuff:
+1 Natural armor
Electricity Healing
Resist 5 fire and cold
+4 knowledge (architecture and engineering)
+2 spot
shocking grasp 1/day level = cl
planetouched subtype
+2 con, -2 dex, +2 int, -2 cha.


"Usually alignment x" means nothing to player characters.  "Always alignment x" means nothing to player characters as well - you're an exceptional member of your race so you can be any alignment you want.
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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2010, 03:36:29 PM »
EDIT: I posted this before the above post, but removed it and posted below since I was editing it when Mad Linguist posted above me
A lesser Mechantrix (Fiend folio) works more like that (heals from anything that would deal electricity damage at a 3-1 ratio).  You can adapt most of your build to use that race instead, and the stats are pretty good for a gish anyway (-2dex,+2con,+2 int, -2 cha).

It took me a while to realize it was under the Planetouched category, but I figured it out.
Could you post what a PC race using this would look like, I read about it in the Fiend Folio, and would love to know more.  I am really curious as to how the Electricity Healing Works. "It cures 1 point of damage for each 3 points of damage" Does that mean a net Gain of +1 Hp, or I only take 2 damage. It's too bad Electricity isnt like fire in which there are sizes which determine how much you heal. Also with the electricity, you need to be directly hit it seems like, where as fire I would just need to be near.
Also, for clarification, a Mechanatrix is humanoid correct?
And it is "Usually" Lawful Neutral, does that mean I could be Chaotic Neutral?

I still like the Fire Genasi, but the Mechanatrix is def worth looking into more

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
As it pertains to Healing Flames I think what I'm going to do is make it so that I have to use an action to heal from the energy of fire, (Keep in mind I am NOT going RAW and dont care about Control Flame).
Basically I'm going to make it so that I have to suck the energy from the fire to heal, so I have to ask, would you guys think I could substitute it for a move action, or should it be a full round action?
And as it pertains to getting hit by fire, I will probably consider the fire attack to be of 2 fire size categories smaller and heal accordingly w/minimum of 1

I found this on another forum and found it interesting, gives more thoughts of how to mod Healing Flames, idk what the best method would be though
"In any case, I think this feat would be highly improved by having it heal 1(the little fires),2(the campfires),3(moderately big fires and the forge),4 (burning inn) hit points per level. I think that is both more elegantly designed while still remaining balanced IMO." -Rav

Also, idk what size category Fireball is, but it's a 20ft Radius
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 03:38:31 PM by WandererTJ »

WandererTJ

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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2010, 03:40:50 PM »
If you'd normally take 3 damage, you instead heal 1 damage.

Normal mechantrixes are LA+1 outsiders, lesser mechantrixes are LA+0 Humanoid(planetouched).  Same as genasi.

Racial stuff:
+1 Natural armor
Electricity Healing
Resist 5 fire and cold
+4 knowledge (architecture and engineering)
+2 spot
shocking grasp 1/day level = cl
planetouched subtype
+2 con, -2 dex, +2 int, -2 cha.

What does the Planetouched subtype entail? The fire genasi was cool as it was not a fire subtype and therefore did not have extra damage from water to it, which is why I ask.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2010, 03:41:16 PM »
If you're homebrewing anyway, why don't you just use the Lesser Mechantrix stats, but change what heals it from electricity to fire, substitute the fluff of the fire genasi, and call it done? Or you could swap some of the stat mods around, if you think +2 Dex/-2Con/+2cha/-2int would fit better, or whatever.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2010, 03:43:59 PM »
Magic that hits outsiders will hit you as well as magic that hits humanoids.

It's pretty much does completely nothing.
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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2010, 06:09:47 PM »
Personally, I sometimes do find the rules as they're written to be a little confining (there's an entire section of this forum dedicated to writing new rules to take the game to places it ordinarily can't)

Where is this section?

Bauglir

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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2010, 06:14:45 PM »
Personally, I sometimes do find the rules as they're written to be a little confining (there's an entire section of this forum dedicated to writing new rules to take the game to places it ordinarily can't)

Where is this section?

You'll want to scroll up slightly on the main page. It's the House Rules and somethingsomethingidon'trememberandamtoolazytolookup board.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

raith0

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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2010, 07:15:25 PM »
i posted the link for you on the 339 site but dont forget the gish handbook. 

as for the duskblade thing if you are going to dip duskblade take 3 levels. 
a duskblade build mike look something like this ( and with the +2 int you wuold probably be better off any)
Duskblade 3/ Wizard 4/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Spell Sword 1/ xxx 7 ( you will want full casting and at least medium base attack here)

for the last 7 levels i would suggest Eldritch Knight or Bone Knight is the other one similiar to it im away from books right now sorry.  EK will not get you 9th level spells only 8th but it will net you +7 BAB and a bonus feat.   

hope this helps

ron

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Re: Fire Genasi Gish - "Fireball Hugger" 3.5 (HELP)
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2010, 01:08:51 AM »
If you want to heal with fire, there's always Phoenix Belt.  Set yourself on fire for continuous fast healing 1.
Eh, the wizard have more money than them combined, he could in theory just use all his money on a fleet of trained attack mules, but then we aren't playing 3.5 but zergling rushing in Starcraft instead.