Author Topic: Sublime Sublime Gish  (Read 2475 times)

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Brainpiercing

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Re: Sublime Sublime Gish
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2010, 11:44:19 AM »
The build is still pointless because channelling is a standard action and initiating is a standard action, too, so you can't have both in one attack.

fuinjutsu

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Re: Sublime Sublime Gish
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2010, 12:15:50 PM »
The build is still pointless because channelling is a standard action and initiating is a standard action, too, so you can't have both in one attack.

Most strikes are standard actions, sure, but there are swift action boosts you might take advantage of.  Eg. Burning Blade.  And the 2nd level ability of Jade Phoenix Mage >>>> Arcane strike.
Eh, the wizard have more money than them combined, he could in theory just use all his money on a fleet of trained attack mules, but then we aren't playing 3.5 but zergling rushing in Starcraft instead.

Bauglir

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Re: Sublime Sublime Gish
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2010, 04:35:24 PM »
The build is still pointless because channelling is a standard action and initiating is a standard action, too, so you can't have both in one attack.

Most strikes are standard actions, sure, but there are swift action boosts you might take advantage of.  Eg. Burning Blade.  And the 2nd level ability of Jade Phoenix Mage >>>> Arcane strike.

Hey, Arcane Strike is a free action. Let's have both. But anyway, yeah, that's what I was worried about, but you can still do better than a Wizard base who can't hold the charge for a touch spell in the sword he's going to be delivering his Strikes with (well, Unarmed Swordsage, I suppose). Scalding touch is real nice for that, if you need a default spell, since it'll probably last the whole battle.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

Brainpiercing

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Re: Sublime Sublime Gish
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2010, 12:52:05 AM »
I'm AFB right now, are you sure you can hold the charge in the weapon? I've got something in the back of my head that you have to attack as part of the same standard action. Well, it would make sense to hold the charge, but we all know that RAW and common sense are two very different things. :)

Bauglir

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Re: Sublime Sublime Gish
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2010, 03:16:29 AM »
Hm... it's dicey. Relevant rules quotes.

Quote from: SRD
Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.
Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can’t hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.

Quote from: PHB2
Arcane Channeling (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, you can use a standard action to cast any touch spell you know and deliver the spell through your weapon with a melee attack. Casting a spell in this manner does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action or less. If the melee attack is successful, the attack deals damage normally; then the effect of the spell is resolved.

I'm inclined to believe that since Arcane Channeling doesn't prohibit holding the charge of the spell, and the original rule says "most" (implying that you can unless it says otherwise), you can continue holding it. Provided, of course, that you do what Arcane Channeling requires; you have to make a melee attack to deliver the spell. Since holding the charge isn't an effect of the spell (it's not listed under any spell's description), it doesn't require you to hit. So you have to attack and fail to hit anything while preparing to hold the charge. That said, you need to discharge all the touches of scalding touch in a single round, and cannot hold the charge. I didn't know that, and it's quite unfortunate since that's an amazing damage spell.

I'm tempted to try to design an Enlightened Fist-based version of this that attempts to generate as many attacks as possible, without any of the ambiguity of holding a charge in a weapon. Maybe later.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

Brainpiercing

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Re: Sublime Sublime Gish
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2010, 11:47:30 AM »
Well, if the Holding the Charge rules carry over, then you can hold the charge in the weapon. If you touch anything with it you will discharge - hence allowing touch attacks with the weapon (but presumably without weapon damage), too.

The other consequence is that full-attack-channelling can't be held - because you have to "touch", i.e. attack all targets of the spell in the same round.

The relation between spells like Chill Touch and channelling is totally undetermined, especially since it's even unclear whether you really can make 20 touch attacks with it (with CL 20) in one round, if even friendly touches are limited to 7 or so per round (IIRC.

Now this would allow some weird things: For example, you could channel into an arrow (which you hold loosely as a melee weapon), and then have another character use Launch Bolt to shoot this arrow at an enemy, discharging on impact.  (You can't do it yourself, or else the spell will dissipate.) That is certainly a poor man's Arcane Archer, but... the fact that you CAN do it when you really do need it is worth a little, maybe.