Author Topic: alternative system for gaining (magic) items - suggestions welcome!  (Read 1689 times)

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Waazraath

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In a campaign I'm playing atm, there are the following items concerning items:
- non-magical items are available at will (though there are limits, it's not possible to get 20 mw items just to sell them)
- gc is really hard to get by
- magical items are available by no means, except:
- after every session, we can add our WBL, and order everything we want (from a royal artificer), to have new equipent or improve what we have.
- every session we'll gain a level

So basically, after session one, we could spent 900 gc (nobody did). After last session (second), we had 2700 to spent (I think everybody is still thinking what to do with that). But, if we spent it, then next level we'll have 5400 - 2700 = 2700 gc to spent on items. Sounds nice, it has some advantages:
- we're never behind on WBL
- items are totally customizable

But:
- improving existing items with new abilities cost 50% extra. Consequence: when I buy a cheap belt at level 5 and I want another belt at level 10, I can either 1) throw away the old one (and the cash invested in it) or 2) improve the old one, but with 50% extra costs. Neither is very appealing.
- one use items and charge items are really gone when you used them, in the sense that the potion you drink at level 3 will still be a burden to the total wealth at level 10.

This poses quite a dilemma, since it makes me reluctant to buy stuff, out of fear that it'll be have to thrown away on higher levels anyway. Then again, not having equipment is a straight road to underpowereness.

What I'm thinking right now is that at low levels, it might be best to invest in slotless items. But besides that, and already planning the entire item-progression from level 2-20 (which I don't really feel like), would somebody have a suggestion how to handle this?


Much obliged!
« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 09:34:42 AM by Waazraath »

X-Codes

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Re: alternative system for gaining (magic) items - suggestions welcome!
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2010, 10:10:01 AM »
Until you can get the best items, don't bother getting any permanent items with scaling bonuses.  You're eventually going to fall behind WBL anyway because you're throwing away your old items.  Instead, focus on high-quality consumable items like wands/scrolls of lesser vigor, enlarge person, grease, alter self, knock... basically any spell that someone in your party would find useful and is worth taking the standard action to cast.  Avoid spells with CL variables other than duration, like magic missile (especially magic missile), and save-or-lose spells, since the saving throws will be pathetically low.  Everyone in the party should likely pick up at least a few ranks in Use Magic Device.  Just get enough of a bonus so that you'll generally activate a wand before you wind up rolling a 1 and locking yourself out for a day.

In fact, even when it comes to the best static-bonus items, you might want to just avoid them.  +5 magic swords/armor and +5 cloaks of resistance are either replicated or trumped by spells.  Rings of Deflection and Amulets of Natural Armor are likewise relatively unimportant.  +6 stat items are useful, but +4 and +2 items should be skipped for wands of their respective stat buffing spells as they improve effectiveness in the short term and save money in the long term.  Casters don't have much to do with their actions at low levels, anyway, having them cast 3-minute buffs before or in the first round of a fight will give them something useful and important to do until they utterly take over the game as it approaches level 10.

Instead, just take a piece of paper and copy the item slots to it.  Fill up each item slot with what you'd ideally want in each slot.  Remember to avoid items like Rings of Deflection and Amulets of Natural Armor.  The only static item bonuses you should entertain are +6 stat items, everything else can be replicated by spells (assuming they're even important enough to bother with).  Instead, go with items like Rings of the Darkhidden or Monk's Belts, etc.  Items that define your character.  You can even build around them because you not only control whether or not you get these items, but you control when you get them.  Because of that, you can build much more potent characters specifically designed to take advantage of niche items that most DMs may not even know exist, much less throw to a party.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 10:12:42 AM by X-Codes »

Waazraath

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Re: alternative system for gaining (magic) items - suggestions welcome!
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2010, 05:02:23 PM »
Mhh, maybe I should some extra info about the party / campaign I guess. Besides the houserules mentioned in the first post, the campaigns is a bit out of the ordinary. Every session consists of a few hours of roleplay / research, on where to find the next encounter. Encounter is usually one BBEG, without minions, but in a dynamic, dangerous environment (vulcanoes, ridges, etcetera). Therefor, we can't use save or dies or save or cripples; it's a rather fine line, ray of clumsiness is ok, ray of dizzyness isn't. Because of the way sessions are build up, we (both DM and players) don't want 1 spell to end the encounter.

Party consist of: cleric archer, gish (cha based, in abjurant champion asap), wizard/malconvoker/incantatrix, and binder/wizard/anima mage/unseen seer/incantatrix, which is me. Concept is a debuffer/raycaster, low level focussing on debuffs, higher level either debuff, battlefield control or big blasting damage, from several sneak attack/metamagic sources.

Use magic divice won't be neccisary, I think :)

Some questions:
- aren't static bonus items exactly the thing to pick? Because a belt of giant strength +4 can become a BoGS +6 with just paying for the extra +2 bonus (20000). While if I want to make my belt of healing a +6 BoGS, I'd have to pay 1.5 x 36000 = 54000, if I interpred the magic item rules correctly.
- also, you advise to get consumable items: but isn't it a waste, since I can only use them once but they'll take a chunk out of my WBL for the rest of my characters adventuring career? Or doesn't that matter too much, cause at low level it's so little GC that it's irrelevant?

Further, thnx for the reaction. I'll definitely use the tip to just write down the items I want to have at level 20, and start to work back from there.


dna1

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Re: alternative system for gaining (magic) items - suggestions welcome!
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2010, 08:56:15 PM »
whats wbl and gc?
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: alternative system for gaining (magic) items - suggestions welcome!
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2010, 09:19:47 PM »
Wealth By Level and Gold Coins.

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Widow

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Re: alternative system for gaining (magic) items - suggestions welcome!
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2010, 04:38:27 PM »
Do you have access to the magic item Compendium?  There is a section in the back of the book that gives a list of common bonuses that you can add to an item at no higher % price.  I will have to look, I am not sure if that includes just the merging of two items bump, or also adding extra stuff later bump.

Also, what is your party's alignment.  One easy solution if you are good is to take ancestral relic.  The ancestral relic feat lets you can sacrfice items at full value to enchant your specific relic.  You do not need any pre-reqs for enchanting your item with whatever you want and the Max value of the relic is equal to half your WBL.  So you can easily start out with some cheaper items that because less useful later to just fed them to your relic.  The net result is you pay one feat (which is the usual cost even with the standard system) to keep your WBL maxed out (or you might be able to get ahead if you ever get ahold of something else of gp value).

Otherwise plan out your ideal gear for level 20 and find the cheapest way to get it.

Waazraath

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Re: alternative system for gaining (magic) items - suggestions welcome!
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2010, 01:25:56 PM »
Found the table, very helpful, thnx! Ancestral relic is a nice option as well.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: alternative system for gaining (magic) items - suggestions welcome!
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2010, 04:15:17 PM »
Also consider founding your own weapon of legacy
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fuinjutsu

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Re: alternative system for gaining (magic) items - suggestions welcome!
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2010, 09:00:54 PM »
Also consider founding your own weapon of legacy

Oh, Mods, yes.  Custom WoL are AWESOME.  I had this adamantine dagger that gave Initiative +12, a Martial Strike and Stance each, a continuous detect secret doors, fairie fire at will... lots of good stuff.
Eh, the wizard have more money than them combined, he could in theory just use all his money on a fleet of trained attack mules, but then we aren't playing 3.5 but zergling rushing in Starcraft instead.

Endarire

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Re: alternative system for gaining (magic) items - suggestions welcome!
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2010, 09:28:39 PM »
Book of Exalted Deeds has the Ancestral Relic feat.  In short, you can enchant an item with any power you want by converting at full value instead of half.
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Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Bauglir

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Re: alternative system for gaining (magic) items - suggestions welcome!
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2010, 11:01:35 PM »
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Healing Belts for healing. It's something you're going to have to do (ideally out of combat), and in the long run they're far and away more efficient than any consumable. 6d8 per day in healing, 750 gp. The Amulet of Tears, IIRC, was also pretty good for the purpose.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

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