Author Topic: Lists of Uses for flexible spells?  (Read 7927 times)

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Widow

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Re: Lists of Uses for flexible spells?
« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2010, 05:44:47 PM »

But lyric spell does have the potential of letting you spend alot of bardic music attempts to get one or two spells a day with persistent as long as it works like divine metamagic and lets you cast spells at a level higher than you can normally cast

Divine Metamagic doesn't explicitly let you exceed the level of spells you can normally cast, it simply lacks the statement forbidding you from doing so (Which metamagic music or whatever it was called, and other metamagic enhancer abilities do have).  Since lyric spell also lacks that forbidden clause, my suggested use of it is every bit as valid as DMM Persisting 4th level spells at Cleric 7.

I agree you can cast the spell, but how is he using the action point? 

Action points can
1) Let you retain a spell slot when you cast a spell.  He is not using a spell slot but bardic music attempts with lyric spell.
2) You can apply 1 metamagic for free.  If he wants to get persistent spell applied, why use lyric spell to apply persistent when he can just apply persistent directly (and with one less feat needed).
3) You can get an extra use of a use per day class ability, IE bardic music.  Getting one extra bardic music is not saving you much when one action point can apply the whole metamagic for free (but you still need to expend the lower spell slot).

No problem with lyric spell, just want to know how lyric spell adds to your ability to cast alot of persistent spells when action points are already available.

MalcolmSprye

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Re: Lists of Uses for flexible spells?
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2010, 02:47:47 AM »
New set of questions, still about spell selection: My character has Words of Creation, and will probably have Persist spell, along with Metamagic song, and possibly Lyric Spell.

[spoiler]What are some good uses for the free extend spell on conjuration(creation) from WoC?  I already use it with glitterdust.  Things like Solid fog or Freezing fog(by the way, this is listed as lvl 5 in Complete Arcane, and 6 in SpC.. which is it?) seem like good choices too.  Any obscure(or not so obscure) goodies I should know about?

What uses are there for the +1 CL boost to Good spells from WoC?  Aside from slight increases to duration, are there any Good aligned spells that benefit hugely from casting at a higher level?  If there are, combining this with the CL boost from Sublime Chord will be sweet.

What are some good BARD spells, lvl 0-3 to persist?  I'll only have 15 bardic uses per day at 20th... so basically I'll probably end up with 1 persistent spell a day(I have other uses for bardic music as well).  It has to be bard spells, since my GM has ruled that Sublime chord spells have to be lvl 4 or higher(so I won't have any lvl 3 or lower wizard spells).[/spoiler]
Anybody? +CL mainly just good for beating SR? Or are there Good aligned wizard/bard spells(like holy word for clerics) that rely on CL for their effectiveness?

carnivore

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Re: Lists of Uses for flexible spells?
« Reply #42 on: September 16, 2010, 07:43:12 AM »
Words of Creation for Bards are commonly used to Boost the effects of Bardic Music ..... notice:

Words of Creation
Type: Exalted
Source: Book of Exalted Deeds

You have learned a few of the words that were spoken to create the world.

Prerequisite: Int 15, Cha 15, base Will save bonus +5.
Benefit: You can use the Words of Creation to enhance bardic music

MalcolmSprye

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Re: Lists of Uses for flexible spells?
« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2010, 01:08:40 PM »
Yes, thank you that's what I took it for to begin with :D... but since I have the feat anyway, I was looking for ways to maximize the use I get out of it.  I already use it for the Sacred bonus to crafting.  Since I'm now going to be focusing more on spell casting, I was looking to see if I should select spells that worked well with WoC.
Words of Creation for Bards are commonly used to Boost the effects of Bardic Music ..... notice:

Words of Creation
Type: Exalted
Source: Book of Exalted Deeds

You have learned a few of the words that were spoken to create the world.

Prerequisite: Int 15, Cha 15, base Will save bonus +5.
Benefit: You can use the Words of Creation to enhance bardic music

jameswilliamogle

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Re: Lists of Uses for flexible spells?
« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2010, 01:22:51 PM »
Isn't there a feat that turns a spell into a [good] spell?  I don't believe there are that many really great spells to use for the +1 CL on the bard lists, so I don't think its worth focusing on.

The free extend can be used with summons...  I still don't think its a great method.  If you go SC, then you could pick up some buffs with it...  For example, use Mindblank only once every other day.  

Confusion?  If you have a whole bunch of enemies?  Charm Monster?  

The problem is that although there's plenty of spells you could extend, most of them last as long as you want them to already, and extending them won't make them last through another encounter.  Also, and Extend Rod is cheap, cheap, cheap, and people still don't buy them (except for ultra-paranoid wizards).
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 01:24:58 PM by jameswilliamogle »

carnivore

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Re: Lists of Uses for flexible spells?
« Reply #45 on: September 16, 2010, 02:23:00 PM »
Consecrate Spell[Metamagic](+1 spl lvl) (BoED p42)(CDiv p79)req:Good alignment
1. Spell gains the [good] subtype.
2. Half the damage dealt by the spell is Untyped, so it is not blocked by any form of
energy resistance.

this way all of your spells can benifit from Words of Creation

 :D

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Lists of Uses for flexible spells?
« Reply #46 on: September 16, 2010, 02:29:09 PM »
Also, and Extend Rod is cheap, cheap, cheap, and people still don't buy them (except for ultra-paranoid wizards).
Pshhh... I use them on lots of characters. Basically any of them that use a lot of buffs.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

MalcolmSprye

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Re: Lists of Uses for flexible spells?
« Reply #47 on: September 16, 2010, 03:45:51 PM »
Isn't there a feat that turns a spell into a [good] spell?  I don't believe there are that many really great spells to use for the +1 CL on the bard lists, so I don't think its worth focusing on.

The free extend can be used with summons...  I still don't think its a great method.  If you go SC, then you could pick up some buffs with it...  For example, use Mindblank only once every other day.  

Confusion?  If you have a whole bunch of enemies?  Charm Monster?  

The problem is that although there's plenty of spells you could extend, most of them last as long as you want them to already, and extending them won't make them last through another encounter.  Also, and Extend Rod is cheap, cheap, cheap, and people still don't buy them (except for ultra-paranoid wizards).
I am going Sublime chord, so I'm not limited to the bard list for levels 4-9.  Sadly... mindblank + WoC boosted IC isn't really a great combo, since it makes me immune to my own song :D
Also, free extend only works on conjuration(Creation), not conjuration(summoning) or abjuration :/