Author Topic: Some Circle Magic Batteries  (Read 5280 times)

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Amechra

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Some Circle Magic Batteries
« on: September 09, 2010, 08:05:11 PM »
If you are using Circle Magic, here are some nice little batteries (I.E. they're first level characters who give you 16 spell levels.)

Silverbrow Human Warmage 1

Feats: Eldritch Corruption, Heighten Spell, Earth Sense, and Earth Spell. Requires 2 flaws.

This is a nice first level follower for any RWoT, because you can get 80 spell levels out of 5 of them, instead of the 35 you'd get normally.


A higher level version (as in 6th level) can store 106 spell levels. Each.

Silverbrow Human Warmage 6

Feats: 1st: Eldritch Corruption, Heighten Spell, Earth Sense, Earth Spell. 3rd: Easy Metamagic (Heighten Spell). 6th: Practical Metamagic (Heighten Spell)

Basically, freely heighten all spells by 3, and then use Eldritch Corruption to raise three 6th level spells to 8th level.

Effectively, with a circle of 5 of these guys, you can generate 530 spell levels. That's enough to raise Mr. 10th level Thayan Wizard to Cl 40, and give him the ability to raise 25 CANTRIPS to 20th level.

At level 15, Mr. Thayan Wizard has 10 of these guys. Can you say 1060 spell levels?

Obviously, there are probably far more efficient ways to use Circle Magic, but with 5 6th level characters?

Yeah, you just nuked Paris.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Amechra

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2010, 11:00:11 PM »
Thought I would add a little bit of cheese I just noticed; it's called sacrificing a cantrip slot for 40 9th level slots.

You need the feat Arcane Manipulation (seriously flavorful for this guy) and 380 spell levels.

You raise a cantrip to 20th level (20 spell levels), and then use Arcane Manipulation to turn that into 40 cantrips.

Spend 9 levels each to give you 40 9th level spells. (360 spell levels).

You just went from 1/2 a spell level to 360 spell levels.

Oh, and an interesting fact; Earth Spell not only adds one level to your heightening, it gives you +1 to cl per level you would have heightened without Earth Spell.

So without further cheese, any of your spells could be cast at cl 51-60.

Also, Circle Magic is wonderful with reserve feats, because you can have the following every round:

40ft range 20d4 ranged attack (force)
Summon a Large Elemental for 20 rounds
100ft as a standard action.
Teleport 40 pounds to you from 100ft away.
20d6 sonic damage; fort save or deafened. Touch attack though (Spectral Hand FTW!)
Make a weapon Ghost-Touch (effectively) for 1 round, plus 20 damage for each attack.
Force opposing spellcasters to make a DC 35 Concentration check or suffer a -2 to Caster level and save DC.
Give someone Fast Healing 60 while they're under 50% of their max HPs.

And that's at 10th level.

Coincidentally, if you can find a way to combine this with Shadowcraft Mage... 250% reality anyone? (Off by about 10%)

Actually you could do it, but it would be a full build, and you would lose 3 levels of spellcasting...
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Enev

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2010, 12:18:07 AM »
To participate in Circle Magic, each person must have the required feat (i.e. tattoo focus for red wizards or ethran for hathrans) needed to get into the PrC that grants circle magic.

Amechra

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2010, 01:03:06 AM »
Dang, I knew I was forgetting something. Still, that's fixable; use wizards, and then Psyref away Scribe Scroll into Tattoo Focus. Just grab Spontaneous Divination at 5th level, and everything is golden. Especialy if you manage to find a scroll of E/StDC, so as to perform the DCFS to swap out Alertness from each of the Wizards to grab Arcane Manipulation.

So it's doable; cheesy, but doable.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Epoch16

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2010, 01:30:07 AM »
Lets just hope Szass Tam doesnt hear about this.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2010, 01:58:21 AM »
Make 'em all necropolitans.  That gives a free taint bonus feat, which you spend on eldritch corruption
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Amechra

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2010, 03:13:30 AM »
Lets just hope Szass Tam doesnt hear about this.

Who?
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

McPoyo

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2010, 11:52:41 AM »
Lets just hope Szass Tam doesnt hear about this.

Who?
Big red wizard guy. Undead lich of insane power. Single handedly held off an attempted coup by the other 6 co-leader wizards of Thay, killing three in the process.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
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Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2010, 04:05:03 PM »
I want to know how your getting the 20th levels spells considering Highten spell caps at 9th level.
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Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2010, 04:07:47 PM »
I want to know how your getting the 20th levels spells considering Highten spell caps at 9th level.
Red Wizard's Circle Magic. IIRC it specifically says you can Heighten to 20th, or something insane like that.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2010, 04:15:28 PM »
I want to know how your getting the 20th levels spells considering Highten spell caps at 9th level.
Red Wizard's Circle Magic. IIRC it specifically says you can Heighten to 20th, or something insane like that.
Ah. I never looked too close at the class didn't realize it added an extra exception for us. That was very nice of them to include a button that said break game here.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

BeholderSlayer

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2010, 04:31:01 PM »
You can combine the Arcane Manipulation trick above with another trick in the handbook I just posted. Heighten another 2 cantrips to 20, then break those 20th level slots into 40 first level spells, and buy a Ring of Wizardry I. The ring states it doubles the number of spells at that level, and only discounts bonus spells from INT bonus and possibly specializing (I don't really remember). This snags you 80 first level spells. Then heighten those spells to 9th or beyond, and cast Spell Engine to reassign 9th level spells into your heightened first level slots.

So you end up with over 100 9th level spells, possibly heightened to 20th, for the cost of 3 cantrips.

My math may or may not be correct. Don't feel like checking it.

You'd have to be doing this in a Genesis'd plane with insane flowing time traits, cuz it'll take you a while.
Hi Welcome
[spoiler]
Allow me to welcome you both with my literal words and with an active display of how much you fit in by being tone deaf, dumb, and uncritical of your babbling myself.[/spoiler]

Amechra

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2010, 05:27:16 PM »
Yep, I knew there was a better way than my 40 9th levels from a cantrip idea.

Though that's 120 from 3 cantrips...

Plus, my way adds in the fact that you only need that one hour to use it.

Say, can you perform Circle Magic any amount of times per day? Because I've been working under the assumption that you can only do it once.

If not, then you can hurl around spells like no one's business.

It takes a LONG time to burn through 120 spell slots...
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

BeholderSlayer

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2010, 05:50:25 PM »
Yep, I knew there was a better way than my 40 9th levels from a cantrip idea.

Though that's 120 from 3 cantrips...

Plus, my way adds in the fact that you only need that one hour to use it.

Say, can you perform Circle Magic any amount of times per day? Because I've been working under the assumption that you can only do it once.

If not, then you can hurl around spells like no one's business.

It takes a LONG time to burn through 120 spell slots...
You may use it any number of times per day, but each single spell cast by each participant takes 1 hour of concentration and spellcasting. So, for example, you may run Circle Magic for 4 hours and each participant can donate 4 spells.

EDIT: at level 20, though, you could have Simulacra that have Circle Magic Leader. They could spend all night conducting Circle Magic to boost their spells to 20th level, then donate 20th level spells to your Great Circle. This would make things happen quite a bit faster.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 06:08:35 PM by BeholderSlayer »
Hi Welcome
[spoiler]
Allow me to welcome you both with my literal words and with an active display of how much you fit in by being tone deaf, dumb, and uncritical of your babbling myself.[/spoiler]

Amechra

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2010, 06:25:19 PM »
Heck, keep churning out Simulacrums, and you could grab yourself tens of thousands of spell levels.

You know, you don't want to drop that down to 1st level. You can spend a spell level on each to grab 80 first level spells for each cantrip.

In other words, fear my 240 20th level spells.

Just from that, 10 Simulacrums would be able to contribute 48000 spell levels all together. Use those on other Simulacrums to raise all of their spells to 20th.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Win DnD.

Should I make a guide for this?
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

BeholderSlayer

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2010, 06:29:30 PM »
Heck, keep churning out Simulacrums, and you could grab yourself tens of thousands of spell levels.
A great circle leader can only lead a circle with 9 participants. Can you explain this logic?

You know, you don't want to drop that down to 1st level. You can spend a spell level on each to grab 80 first level spells for each cantrip.

In other words, fear my 240 20th level spells.
I also don't understand the italicized logic. I'm sure there's a step that I'm missing, but I'm intrigued by this thought process.

Just from that, 10 Simulacrums would be able to contribute 48000 spell levels all together. Use those on other Simulacrums to raise all of their spells to 20th.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Win DnD.

Should I make a guide for this?
You could do that, or make a post in the Red Wizard Handbook I posted in the Handbooks section earlier this morning (this thread inspired me to transfer it from 339, since I always worry it's been lost).
Hi Welcome
[spoiler]
Allow me to welcome you both with my literal words and with an active display of how much you fit in by being tone deaf, dumb, and uncritical of your babbling myself.[/spoiler]

Amechra

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2010, 10:38:22 PM »
The Italicized logic was a temporary break of insanity. The point is, go through Circle Magic once, and grant yourself the 120 cantrips, and heighten them to 1st level; use your Ring of Wizardry to double that.

Then, optionally, enter Circle Magic again, and then raise them to 20th level.

Oh, and the argument about the simulacrum is that, sure you are limited to 9 people at a time, but if each of those "people" had had all the spells of 9 wizards of the same level each funneled into them, who in turn had the same amount of wizards channeling into them, and so on and so forth.

Basically, it goes like this (the number of participants, outside of the Circle Leaders, for each "wave"):
9<-81<-729<-6561...<-NI.

Of course, the upper bound of spell levels you could hold would be equal to 21*(Number of Wizard Spells); after that, your just being wasteful.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Felix Underwood

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2010, 09:25:41 PM »
Amechra, thank you very much for posting this.  I'm very intrigued.  I admit to not looking too closely at Circle Magic before.  I'd like to understand this better, and maybe use some of it for a BBEG in my campaign.

Using Circle Magic to heighten a cantrip to 20th level still leaves you with just a cantrip, right?  You mentioned "sacrificing a cantrip slot for 40 9th level slots"... but they are not actual slots right?... Just cantrips Heightened to that level?

Silverbrow was to get dragonblooded... that and Warmage was for Practial Metamagic, yes?

If you did Necropolitans for the free taint feat, you'd lose out on Earth Sense/Spell (requires Con 13).

I think the 20th level cap for Heighten only applies to enhancing the Circle Leaders memorized spells using "circle bonus levels" generated by the Circle.  Otherwise, the 9th level cap archangel.arcanis mentions still applies to the circle participant's spell used to empower the circle.

Would anyone take pitty on me and walk me through the math one step at a time?  I'm determined to understand the mechanics of this.  Thanks in advance.

(edit:  also, Arcane Manipulation from Lost Empires of Faerun can only be used on up to 3 slots, yes?)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 09:27:14 PM by Felix Underwood »

Amechra

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2010, 09:51:00 PM »
Alright, let's go through this step-by-step:

When your spells are Heightened by Circle Magic, you can use said Heightened spells as fuel for further Circle Magic, since the Metamagic stays put.

That's why you can get so many spell levels.

Yes, they're cantrips, but with some wrangling, you can grab Stoneblessed and Shadowcaster Mage, meaning those cantrips can be sacrificed for wild thing. Wild, I say!

Also, there's always Uncanny Foresight...  :smirk

Take a look at the Red Wizard handbook; I'm contributing, and there are some really twisted tricks in there.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

McPoyo

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Re: Some Circle Magic Batteries
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2010, 09:22:33 AM »
Also, heighten makes the spell that actual level, unlike most other metamagic, so you actually end up with a 20th level spell slot
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]