Author Topic: Anime/Manga II  (Read 139580 times)

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Agita

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #260 on: October 14, 2010, 08:57:03 AM »
I remember seeing this exact same argument on GitP, by you even. I've read both sides of the debate, and I agree with the "Gensokyo is saccharine" side, so you'll pretty much only hear from me arguments you've already heard; if Mirrinus didn't convince you, I won't either. Shall we leave it at that and agree to disagree? :)
NEVAH! We shall solve this in a fists/magic cards/swords/mechas battle :p

(no, really, in my dream idea of a forum there would be a bunch of quick duel games of diferent genres trough wich posters could solve stalled discussions

Plus, my argument here is an advanced version, as Imperishable night adds several new layers of creepy to Touhou. Mirrinus said the human village was filled with badasses more than able to fight Youkai by themselves. Where were they at that time?)
Fine, you've successfully baited me. I'm bad at games, though, so this will have to do. :p
First Spell: Argument Sign "Point-By-Point Rebuttal"

First, the humans were, rather obviously, not currently in existence at the time the protagonists passed by, having been spirited out of history by Keine.

I thought there was some kind of "spell border" in place for duels? Doesn't it, in fact, say that in the fighting games at the start of a match?
You mean the fighting games that aren't cannon? :smirk
They are most certainly not cannon, but they are fully canon, having been written by ZUN and all. And before you latch on to that, the fights in those games are also all strictly nonlethal. You'll notice that they're essentially spell card battles. The most violent thing in there is literally punches and kicks. Note how even stuff like Remilia's Gungnir, a huge frickin' spear made of force, doesn't shed so much as a drop of blood or even do more than knock the enemy to the ground and do damage. In the story mode, you'll notice that they aren'T even KOed at the end of the battle.

[spoiler]
Embodiment of Scarlet Devil
-Permanent night covers the land. Every animal and plant bound to slowly wither and die due to the lack of sunlight.
-Two of the bosses asking if they can devour you. Literally.
-Patchoulli has a book detailing how to properly dismember human beings for better consumption.
-Enter human that gloats about having killed all those who tried to take her position as chief maid.
-Enter vampire confirming that yes, she drinks fresh blood.
-Enter psycho little sister of the above vampire who's forbiden from leaving the mansion in fear she goes in a mindless destruction spree.

Perfect Cherry Blossom
-Permanent winter, so again every animal and plant bound to slowly wither and die.
-Psycho maid roams the land stabbing everything she finds suspicious.
-The musicians weren't even ordered to fight you, but they gank you 3 on 1 seeing you as a meal.
-Half-ghost swordswoman fanatically sucking the last vestiges of spring out of the land.
-Netherworld ruled by demented ghost who not only started the permanent winter, but it's bound to break an ancient forbidden seal, at all costs.

Imperishable night

-Again, massive enviromental colapse as the weather is again seriously messed it. Seeing a pattern here?
-Game explicitly mentions the 2nd level is a place where humans just "vanish" whitout trace if they dare to go there.
-Demented netherworld ruler devours 2nd stage boss, complaining she got a bone stuck on her teeth.
-Vampire intends to feed on the human village.
-Too late, an half-beast erased the human village from existence. Because she considered that it would be better than leting them at the mercy of the main characters.

Several instances of "shoot first, ask questions later, don't really care about answers" on all games.

[/spoiler]
First, aside from the environmental change in IN not actually really being one (they merely delayed dawn for a few hours, if memory serves), all of that can be handwaved by the convention of No Ontological Inertia. Gensokyo is nearly literally made of magic, and the environment there already doesn't work like it does in the real world, what makes you think that a winter that lasted for three months too many would change things greatly?
Next, all death threats or threats of eating someone can, as before, be attributed to posturing and boasting. As for Yuyuko's 'all-night buffet', I can easily see that basically being an in-joke being taken possibly too far. Don't tell me you've never joked about something nonfactual and then taken it to another level. Compare the KonoSetsu joke I and SFT have going on now.
As for the village erasure, note that the half-beast was entirely capable of returning the village to where it was as soon as the real full moon came back out. Which would've been the day after IN. Keine didn't erase them to spare them a gruesome fate, she 'hid' them and was going to put them back with noone being the wiser when the danger was past.
Remilia does indeed drink blood - but she's also mentioned as being a light eater, meaning she doesn't actually kill the people she drinks from. It's entirely possible that she sometimes takes a sip from Sakuya or some of the fairy maids without inconveniencing them much.
Patchy's book on dismembering human beings is likely pretty old, from the time when Youkai did indeed use to eat humans. Would you say someone was a communist because they owned their late grandfather's Communist Manifesto? (I was going to make the comparison with Mein Kampf instead, but I wanted to avoid Godwinning. :p)

Anyway, due to time constraints, I'm forced to cut off here. For my closing pladoyer, I'd like to point you to this quote from ZUN himself, i.e. Word of God:
Quote
I've said it so many times now, Gensokyo is idyllic and pastoral, and is a "peace at any price" kind of a world.
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

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oslecamo

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #261 on: October 14, 2010, 10:26:29 AM »
Prime32:Wait, what? Him? That really caught me by suprise. Cubey was, like, one of the more civilized posters I met in GITP. I never saw him scrubbed once. You must bring him here at all costs!

First, the humans were, rather obviously, not currently in existence at the time the protagonists passed by, having been spirited out of history by Keine.
Thus full human village <<<<<< one single stage 3 level half beast boss.

+1 Point for me, as it shows 99% of the humie population are indeed weaklings compared to the average youkai/mage.

They are most certainly not cannon, but they are fully canon, having been written by ZUN and all. And before you latch on to that, the fights in those games are also all strictly nonlethal. You'll notice that they're essentially spell card battles. The most violent thing in there is literally punches and kicks. Note how even stuff like Remilia's Gungnir, a huge frickin' spear made of force, doesn't shed so much as a drop of blood or even do more than knock the enemy to the ground and do damage. In the story mode, you'll notice that they aren'T even KOed at the end of the battle.
Simply censorship. Most games, violent or not, don't have blood at all, or risk of being considered too gruesome. Even Dawn of War, showing the extra-violent 40K universe, hardly has any blood considering people are hiting each other with explosive bullets. Compare with Starcraft and Warcraft where killed units indeed splatter in pool of blood when hit by heavy artillery.

Also Super Robot Wars, when 90% of the time you blow up a named character's mecha they walk out whitout a scratch (and plenty of times the exploded mecha itself somehow reforms). Even when they are actualy killed, no blood.

Plus, it's not very clear if youkai can bleed or be rendered uncoscious at all. Ghosts certainly wouldn't.

First, aside from the environmental change in IN not actually really being one (they merely delayed dawn for a few hours, if memory serves),
Multiple days actualy, as if you fail the red moon persists and the next set of characters moves on.

all of that can be handwaved by the convention of No Ontological Inertia. Gensokyo is nearly literally made of magic, and the environment there already doesn't work like it does in the real world, what makes you think that a winter that lasted for three months too many would change things greatly?
Because the only reason Reimu goes to stop winter it's because her cherry trees aren't blossoming.

Also, if she didn't went to stop Youmu, something much worst would've hapened. "Rocks fall, everybody dies" worst.

Next, all death threats or threats of eating someone can, as before, be attributed to posturing and boasting. As for Yuyuko's 'all-night buffet', I can easily see that basically being an in-joke being taken possibly too far. Don't tell me you've never joked about something nonfactual and then taken it to another level.
I have, but I'm not the ruler of the netherworld who tried to break the seal to a big danger just for the lulz. Youmu actualy has all the means to perform the deeds she boasts about.

Compare the KonoSetsu joke I and SFT have going on now.
Hmm, you have me kinda lost here.

As for the village erasure, note that the half-beast was entirely capable of returning the village to where it was as soon as the real full moon came back out. Which would've been the day after IN. Keine didn't erase them to spare them a gruesome fate, she 'hid' them and was going to put them back with noone being the wiser when the danger was past.
But if the main characters didn't suceed, then the real moon would never come out. If Keine won, humies would lose.

Remilia does indeed drink blood - but she's also mentioned as being a light eater, meaning she doesn't actually kill the people she drinks from. It's entirely possible that she sometimes takes a sip from Sakuya or some of the fairy maids without inconveniencing them much.
Fair enough here, but her sister is still a psycho to the point she must be contained in the mansion all the time. That's really saying something considering the land they live on.

Patchy's book on dismembering human beings is likely pretty old, from the time when Youkai did indeed use to eat humans. Would you say someone was a communist because they owned their late grandfather's Communist Manifesto? (I was going to make the comparison with Mein Kampf instead, but I wanted to avoid Godwinning. :p)
If they were called for a poltics discussion and brought it, yes. If Patchoulli goes to danmaku with a "100 ways to cook humans" book

And again, in IN it's mentioned that there's places in Gengyoko where humans just "vanish" whitout trace whitout being seen again.

Anyway, due to time constraints, I'm forced to cut off here. For my closing pladoyer, I'd like to point you to this quote from ZUN himself, i.e. Word of God:
Quote
I've said it so many times now, Gensokyo is idyllic and pastoral, and is a "peace at any price" kind of a world.
Funny, because that quote actualy helps me. "At any price" being the key word here. The games are all about Reimu and other key characters keeping peace "at any price" necessary. Wich includes youkais gone bersek that need to be put down.

Or Keine erasing a whole village from existence rather than let it at the mercy of the aproaching, angry super powers. :p

veekie

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #262 on: October 14, 2010, 12:29:18 PM »
Quote
But if the main characters didn't suceed, then the real moon would never come out. If Keine won, humies would lose.
Actually, Eirin mentioned she was going to put the moon back after they were done, so next month?

And in some of the secondary materials, I think, was mentioned somewhere that humans were safe if they stuck to the rules(if you leave the paths, you better be able to defend yourself, don't go out at night), you are safe in the village itself(hell, even some of the powerful youkai go there for shopping) and there are even known ways for dealing with the lesser youkai and fairies that like to mess with people(mostly by tricking them, they aren't too bright).
The greater Youkai are also relatively amiable or isolated.

Most of the humans who do wind up getting eaten blunder their way in from Outside and don't know the rules. If they don't make it to the Hakurei shrine or the human village before they bump into something that considers them edible.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Agita

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #263 on: October 14, 2010, 01:01:47 PM »
Thus full human village <<<<<< one single stage 3 level half beast boss.

+1 Point for me, as it shows 99% of the humie population are indeed weaklings compared to the average youkai/mage.
I disagree. For one, Keine's power is vastly out of proportion with her difficulty level as a boss. Note that they didn't get beaten in a fight - there wasn't a fight in the first place, and neither is it mentioned whether the humans agreed or not. So either they were hidden freely, or they didn't get a choice in the first place - not because Keine overpowered them, but she's more broken than she has any right to be as a Stage 3 boss. For two, what we see in the games are a very small portion of the people living in Gensokyo. It's very much possible that the 'average' youkai is more around Stage 2-3 in difficulty, and the enemies we see in the games are the outliers.

Simply censorship. Most games, violent or not, don't have blood at all, or risk of being considered too gruesome. Even Dawn of War, showing the extra-violent 40K universe, hardly has any blood considering people are hiting each other with explosive bullets. Compare with Starcraft and Warcraft where killed units indeed splatter in pool of blood when hit by heavy artillery.

Also Super Robot Wars, when 90% of the time you blow up a named character's mecha they walk out whitout a scratch (and plenty of times the exploded mecha itself somehow reforms). Even when they are actualy killed, no blood.

Plus, it's not very clear if youkai can bleed or be rendered uncoscious at all. Ghosts certainly wouldn't.
Humans most certainly can, and none of them bleeds or goes unconscious either. As for censorship, it's impossible for us to ascertain it either way, but I'm not sure why you'd randomly assume it, especially given that everyone seems to be just fine and is talking and walking around with merely a bit of clothing damage after every fight.

Multiple days actualy, as if you fail the red moon persists and the next set of characters moves on.
And if you don't fail, everything's fine. If you do, refer back to my argument about "environment is magic".

Because the only reason Reimu goes to stop winter it's because her cherry trees aren't blossoming.

Also, if she didn't went to stop Youmu, something much worst would've hapened. "Rocks fall, everybody dies" worst.
If the heroine(s) hadn't gone to stop Youmu, nothing at all would've happened, because the tree was a bit of spring short of actually blooming - the bit that the heroine of choice carried within/on her.
And in any case, just because there's a sealed demon or even multiple (if you count Flan) doesn't mean Gensokyo is a hellhole where everyone must fight for survival every day.

I have, but I'm not the ruler of the netherworld who tried to break the seal to a big danger just for the lulz. Youmu actualy has all the means to perform the deeds she boasts about.
I would totally make inappropiate jokes about nefarious deeds that I have the means to pull off. Doesn't mean I actually want to do those things, whatever they are.
Also, give Yuyuko a break. She didn't know who or what was sealed in the tree, she just knew there was a corpse of a poor girl and wanted to say hi to that person. She most certainly didn't try to unleash a demon for the lulz. It was more like not thinking things through (which fits her joking around about food too, as it would imply she's something of a ditz). It's the scientific method! :p
More importantly, don't forget that Yukari was her accomplice in this - we're talking about the girl who is probably most interested of everyone in the general well-being of Gensokyo, and likely has the power to reseal the tree if anything goes wrong too.

But if the main characters didn't suceed, then the real moon would never come out. If Keine won, humies would lose.
Until someone else came along and ended the IN. Or, as veekie mentioned, for 28 more days at the latest.

Remilia does indeed drink blood - but she's also mentioned as being a light eater, meaning she doesn't actually kill the people she drinks from. It's entirely possible that she sometimes takes a sip from Sakuya or some of the fairy maids without inconveniencing them much.
Fair enough here, but her sister is still a psycho to the point she must be contained in the mansion all the time. That's really saying something considering the land they live on.

Patchy's book on dismembering human beings is likely pretty old, from the time when Youkai did indeed use to eat humans. Would you say someone was a communist because they owned their late grandfather's Communist Manifesto? (I was going to make the comparison with Mein Kampf instead, but I wanted to avoid Godwinning. :p)
If they were called for a poltics discussion and brought it, yes. If Patchoulli goes to danmaku with a "100 ways to cook humans" book

And again, in IN it's mentioned that there's places in Gengyoko where humans just "vanish" whitout trace whitout being seen again.
So we loop once again into bravado. It's likely she was just trying to scare the puny humans away. They were breaking into her place of residence, after all.

Funny, because that quote actualy helps me. "At any price" being the key word here. The games are all about Reimu and other key characters keeping peace "at any price" necessary. Wich includes youkais gone bersek that need to be put down.
Nah, the 'peace at any price' bit more likely means the danmaku rules, which are specifically in place to let people sort out conflicts without anyone getting hurt. Seriously, that's explicitly their canon purpose. If you follow the rules, everything is fine. And it's not like the rules are particularly hard to follow or significantly restrict people's freedom beyond 'thou shalt not kill'.

Quote
But if the main characters didn't suceed, then the real moon would never come out. If Keine won, humies would lose.
Actually, Eirin mentioned she was going to put the moon back after they were done, so next month?
Or even the very next day, depending on how the timing works out. But yeah, in 28 days at the latest. And they probably wouldn't even know they had been gone. If you play MtG, think of it as an "exile until end of turn" effect. ;)

Anyway, I don't think this discussion is going anywhere. I obviously won't convince you if you don't want to be convinced, and ZUN's intent is pretty clear. I think any inconsistencies can be chalked up to Big Z not having thought about it too hard.
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Prime32

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #264 on: October 14, 2010, 01:09:02 PM »
Prime32:Wait, what? Him? That really caught me by suprise. Cubey was, like, one of the more civilized posters I met in GITP. I never saw him scrubbed once. You must bring him here at all costs!
Get in the TVTropes thread and down on your knees. :p (this is where you log in)

Oh, and now Nerdo has quit GitP in protest, but he's put his AIM in his sig - I'll try contacting him over the weekend. That's what, half the Anime thread regulars gone now? Half the posts at least.
EDIT: Nerdo sent out PMs to the people following Cubey's LP telling them where he'd moved.

Randomly looked in the OOC of a game Cubey was in and Tengu wants to move it off-site so he can keep playing. I suppose if I get banned I could attempt to get BleachITP to move onto its wiki's forums. Doomed to failure, but I could attempt it.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 01:20:03 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #265 on: October 14, 2010, 03:36:39 PM »
Basically Touhou, like YuGiOh, solves all disputes via card games. 
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oslecamo

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #266 on: October 14, 2010, 04:06:18 PM »
Basically Touhou, like YuGiOh, solves all disputes via card games. 

Funny you mention that. Ever  readed the original YuGiOh? :smirk

Here, have a look.
[spoiler]

You just activated my chainsaw!
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]



When in doubt, KILL IT WITH FIRE!
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Cards? We don't need freaking cards when we have an assortment of fire weapons, shockers and blades!
[/spoiler]

Those are not fanfiction. Those are not virtual reality or magic hallucinations. Those are the original YuGiOh characters using real violence to get their ways whitout even mentioning children card games. ;)

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #267 on: October 14, 2010, 04:10:09 PM »
They're also noncanon.
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Agita

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #269 on: October 14, 2010, 04:18:28 PM »
Yu-Gi-Oh is also only like Touhou in that you can make card game jokes. That's it. There's far too few cute girls too. :p
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #270 on: October 14, 2010, 04:25:15 PM »
They're also noncanon.

Says who? The anime that came later? That drops the characters out of nowhere whitout explaining their background? The background that happens to be explained on the manga? And just happens to include guns and Yugi seting people on fire when not playing children card games? :p
IIRC, a lot of the early manga stuff ended up being removed so it would match the anime.
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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #271 on: October 14, 2010, 04:37:47 PM »
Yu-Gi-Oh is also only like Touhou in that you can make card game jokes. That's it. There's far too few cute girls too. :p

Yeah. Even with a baby panda as the main character, it just doesn't have enough girls.


Then again, I can't say any series has enough girls after reading Negima.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

oslecamo

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #272 on: October 14, 2010, 08:00:00 PM »
Ok, just reading life of a maid on danbooru, and I freaking LOVE it.

In particular this image that showcases the touhou discussion quite well in my opinion
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Other highlights:
[spoiler]
-Reimu's gangster side revealed, as hinted several times during the game. You WILL donate to her.
-Marisa being friendly with all the other girls just to steal burrow their stuff, then ends up walking away with Reimu anyway.
-The reason why there aren't giant monsters in fantasy land. Only those small have any hope of escaping Youmu's eternal hunger.

[/spoiler]

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #273 on: October 14, 2010, 08:04:45 PM »
[spoiler]-Marisa being friendly with all the other girls just to steal burrow their stuff, then ends up walking away with Reimu anyway.[/spoiler]

The way this is worded, you make it sound like she's a kidnapper.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Agita

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #274 on: October 14, 2010, 08:25:48 PM »
Other highlights:
[spoiler]
-Reimu's gangster side revealed, as hinted several times during the game. You WILL donate to her.
-Marisa being friendly with all the other girls just to steal burrow their stuff, then ends up walking away with Reimu anyway.
-The reason why there aren't giant monsters in fantasy land. Only those small have any hope of escaping Youmu's eternal hunger.

[/spoiler]
You just want to see the grim side of everything, don't you? Shame on you. :p
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

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oslecamo

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #275 on: October 14, 2010, 08:47:37 PM »
You just want to see the grim side of everything, don't you? Shame on you. :p

The correct term would be grim-kawai (wich totally isn't a term I just made up now). The "Aaawww, how cute OH GODS IT HAS TEETH But it's still so cuteeee!!!" melts me. Psycho lolis with powers and frilly dresses are much more enjoyable than psycho monsters with ragged clothes and eye-burning bodies.

It's precisely the contradiction Cute/KILL that atracts me! :love

And I won't even deny I loved every time China got stabbed on that fancomic.

Agita

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #276 on: October 14, 2010, 08:54:37 PM »
You just want to see the grim side of everything, don't you? Shame on you. :p

The correct term would be grim-kawai (wich totally isn't a term I just made up now). The "Aaawww, how cute OH GODS IT HAS TEETH But it's still so cuteeee!!!" melts me. Psycho lolis with powers and frilly dresses are much more enjoyable than psycho monsters with ragged clothes and eye-burning bodies.

It's precisely the contradiction Cute/KILL that atracts me! :love

And I won't even deny I loved every time China got stabbed on that fancomic.
Apparently, we have similar likes, but different views of them. I think it's fairly well known here that I have a yandere fetish, and I won't deny that I like darker/insane portrayals of Touhou characters. However, in my mind, all that is strictly fanon (which doesn't lessen my enjoyment of it one bit).
Also.
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oslecamo

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #277 on: October 14, 2010, 09:03:26 PM »
Apparently, we have similar likes, but different views of them. I think it's fairly well known here that I have a yandere fetish, and I won't deny that I like darker/insane portrayals of Touhou characters. However, in my mind, all that is strictly fanon (which doesn't lessen my enjoyment of it one bit).
I think that was a genius maneuver on Zun's part, making the cannon extremely ambivalent, so that both views have strong arguments on their side, thus appealing to a wider public!
-They can't be that bad, they're just joking and playing aroun and it's all fun and games, right?
-...Then why all the creepy smiles? Why does Reimu lives in a decadent shrine when she's the suposed heroine of Gengyoko? Why is everybody treating you as if you were a piece of food? Where's the other humans besides the wicked witch of the west? Why doesn't the night ever ends?

Also.

You got me there, the songs are also a big turn on for me. I love playing just for the music. Actualy I need to play some now. Damn you!

EDIT: Just one more image before going to bed, I don't know if I should laugh or cry at it(on the good sense)
http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/745173/-_-3-bad_end-boned_meat-food-giving_up_the_ghost-h

Nick

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #278 on: October 15, 2010, 01:14:58 AM »
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 03:17:02 AM by Nick »
"You'll still be living in caves."
"Hell I don't mind that."
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befriend (v.): to use mecha-class beam weaponry to inflict grievous bodily harm on a target in the process of proving the validity of your belief system.

Bozwevial

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Re: Anime/Manga II
« Reply #279 on: October 15, 2010, 02:54:23 AM »
Quick question here: Anyone know what the constraints on post sizes are as far as words/characters/images?