Author Topic: Cheesing your spellbook  (Read 8458 times)

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2010, 08:39:27 PM »
Just cause it's in your spellbook, though, doesn't necessarily mean you can prepare it. 

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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2010, 09:05:09 PM »
Just cause it's in your spellbook, though, doesn't necessarily mean you can prepare it. 
Eh, I'm happy to stick with stuff on my normal spell list. Like I said, I'm not going for uber-cheese. A bit of sharp cheddar will do. I don't need runny brie. :D

It says you can cast the spell, but not explicitly that you've prepared it and know it. So I think it is somewhat debatable if you could even copy it into your spellbook. We'll see if the DM lets this fly.
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2010, 09:18:28 PM »
In that case, go with option one, as IIRC reattuning touchstones doesn't even require retraining the feat.  Take a week to poach 9-10 domain spells, swap domains, repeat ad nauseum until you have every domain spell, ever.  As a DK Kobold, this means you will have the bad assery that is Giant Size without trickery (to speak of) from the Hero domain, and chances are you'll be Persistent capable if you're going the versatility route (can't be casting buffs all day long...persistextend ftw!).
Yeah... basically by taking that feat, I can have any domain spell ever in my spellbook for the cost of scribing it in there... which is nuts! It's going to be a big hassle going through and figuring out which ones are where, though... God making wizards is a bookkeeping nightmare. It almost makes me wish I'd went ahead and made another sorcerer. :P

Don't forget the spell to let you scribe for free.  Aupenusis is it?
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Nanshork

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2010, 09:26:05 PM »
Amanuensis, and it explicitly doesn't work for scribing spells.
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2010, 09:27:42 PM »
Amanuensis, and it explicitly doesn't work for scribing spells.

Then that wasn't the spell in question.  I distinctly recall one which explicitly does work for copying spells.  Thanks for the spelling correction though :P
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Nanshork

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2010, 09:29:13 PM »
Amanuensis, and it explicitly doesn't work for scribing spells.

Then that wasn't the spell in question.  I distinctly recall one which explicitly does work for copying spells.  Thanks for the spelling correction though :P

I have no clue what spell you're talking about then, I don't remember anything like that.
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Maat_Mons

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2010, 09:31:37 PM »
Yeah... basically by taking that feat, I can have any domain spell ever in my spellbook for the cost of scribing it in there... which is nuts! It's going to be a big hassle going through and figuring out which ones are where, though...

Eh, I'm happy to stick with stuff on my normal spell list.

You want to easily find spells that are in a domain and on the sorcerer/wizard spell list?  You can go here

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2010, 09:35:09 PM »
Thanks, Maat. I knew about that site, and that's exactly what I was planning to do. I didn't know about some strings screwing up other ones, though. :D
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

KellKheraptis

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2010, 09:35:46 PM »
Yeah... basically by taking that feat, I can have any domain spell ever in my spellbook for the cost of scribing it in there... which is nuts! It's going to be a big hassle going through and figuring out which ones are where, though...

Eh, I'm happy to stick with stuff on my normal spell list.

You want to easily find spells that are in a domain and on the sorcerer/wizard spell list?  You can go here

No, that's the beauty of it.  They don't need to be on the Sor/Wiz list.  I.e. given time, Planar Touchstone gets a Wizard all domain spells, basically for nothing but an already awesome feat.  PT+UncFore = universally versatile.  Remember, Planar Touchstone in this function is also give or take access to roughly 15 feats or effective feats (not counting all the individual iterations of feats that can be taken for different things, like War domain being effectively access to bookoo weapon proficiencies and its corresponding Weapon Focus).
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2010, 09:40:52 PM »
You can have spells in your spellbook that you can't cast.  Just because you were able to cast them when you copied them in doesn't mean shit.
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2010, 09:59:21 PM »
You can have spells in your spellbook that you can't cast.  Just because you were able to cast them when you copied them in doesn't mean shit.

Really?  I don't think that distinction exists.  I.e. once it's in, it's in for life, just like a psion learning a power.  We had a similar discussion involving a Warlock making arcane scrolls in the UM thread IIRC.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2010, 10:06:37 PM »
In that case your arcane disciple 1/day limit wouldn't be enforceable at all.

A wizard can't pick up a wu jen's spell book and prepare from it, right?
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2010, 10:14:27 PM »
In that case your arcane disciple 1/day limit wouldn't be enforceable at all.

A wizard can't pick up a wu jen's spell book and prepare from it, right?

It's an arcane spellbook isn't it?  And he can read it because he's a good batman?  I see nothing preventing it.  Broken as all fuck?  Probably.  But what else would you expect :)  ToAL on a Sorc is the same way...take Arcane Prep, enjoy learning 1 spell per day until you've got too many to remember :P
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2010, 10:30:41 PM »
AND.... after going through redoing my costs.... I realize that I can't quite do this, as I need to take Uncanny Forethought as my 6th level feat, and can't take Planar Touchstone till then, either...

Craptastic. Hmm... I might just have to take wizard at 1st instead of cloistered cleric, so I can move up Spell Mastery/Uncanny Forethought. I'll take a huge hit on skills, which will suck, but at least I can get this in. There are other skill-based characters in the group, so I don't actually need to cover the scout/trapkiller role. Being "GOD" is more important. Hell... I guess I could just dump the sneaky stuff entirely... I'll get +10 to hide just from being a dragonwrought (blue) kobold...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Maat_Mons

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2010, 10:39:50 PM »
I didn't know about some strings screwing up other ones, though.

Actually, never mind, I think the strange results I was getting before must have been due to some mistake I made in selecting options.  My current tests can find no problem. 

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2010, 02:22:41 PM »
OK... I decided to bite the bullet and go ahead and take wizard at 1st level, so I can get all these tasty feats in. Due to his ricockulous int score, I still have decent skills. So it didn't hurt nearly as bad as I thought. (I'd also under-calculated his skill points somehow originally...)

So now I'm just going through figuring out which spells that I want appear on domains. I went through ImarvinTPA's stuff and got quite a lot of them, but there are some from books that aren't in his list I think. So I've got to go track those down. It is almost obscene how many spells I'm going to have in my spellbook for such a trivial cost...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2010, 02:33:21 PM »
In that case your arcane disciple 1/day limit wouldn't be enforceable at all.

A wizard can't pick up a wu jen's spell book and prepare from it, right?

It's an arcane spellbook isn't it?  And he can read it because he's a good batman?  I see nothing preventing it.  Broken as all fuck?  Probably.  But what else would you expect :)  ToAL on a Sorc is the same way...take Arcane Prep, enjoy learning 1 spell per day until you've got too many to remember :P
It's an arcane spellbook, not a wizard spellbook.
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Felix Underwood

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2010, 03:33:15 PM »
Hmm... I'm not sure what PsyRef is going to gain me. Retraining is explicitly allowed, and I think that will be enough for my needs. PsyRef would just cost more gold to do the same thing.
  How much would retraining cost for this game?  Would it be worth taking Precotious Apprentice at 1st level for another 2nd level spell in your book, then retrain that feat out?

Amechra

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2010, 07:48:46 PM »
I'm allowing retraining, but not during chargen. So Phaedrus, just wait a level to retrain; otherwise, figure out another way to do this.

Although, if you can pay for a manifesting of PsyRef, I'll let that fly in chargen.
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On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
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Widow

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Re: Cheesing your spellbook
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2010, 08:24:51 PM »
Ancestral Relic would be a fun way to do it.  Just make the item be your spell book.

JaronK

I feel your pain JaronK, I post that trick on every archivist build thread and no one notices it then either.  If you are a good character, this feat by far is the best.  It lets you sacrific anything with a listed gold value to increase the value of your choosen item on a 1:1 basis.  It does not specify the effects have to be magical enchantments and you do not need any requirements to add whatever you want.  It works just as well as mercantile background, at least for the spell book.

Mercantile sell at 75%  buy at 75%
Ancestral Relic Sacrifce at 100% to get 100%

While you cannot sell at 75% to buy other stuff, you also get the ability to destroy items that are evil you would not want to sell, have a sink that lets you dump things of value without effecting the market (wall of salt produces 10,000's of gp), and can have alot of fun with a lich's phalactery.

Only Caveat, you have to be good.

To add to the geomancer fun, I like to add in the feat Arcane Shorthand from dragon #358.  It cuts the space and price to scribe spells into a spell book in half.  This is alot more fun with an archivist which can literally cast any spell when you take into account alternative spell source.

As for the domain trick, there is the feat Customize Domain from dragon 325 that lets you rearrange the spells on the domain.  If retraining is allowed, you can take that feat and retrain it later.

One spell you might want to look at is "Choose Destiny", a level 9 spell in the Destiny domain from races of destiny.  It does not appear on any other lists, but lets you roll twice for every action and take the better roll.  Very funny as a persistent spell if you use divine metamagic tricks (or arcane divine metamagic tricks).