[3.5] More PsyWar or Soul Manifester?

[Wyvernhand]

Crossposted from here since I got no replies.

So, I have a character for a RHoD game I'm in, an overly affectionate half giant named Lenny, who just loves to hug, squeeze, and love his enemies forever and ever until their little heads pop off. I'm a little torn between which direction to take him, as I have a few unique opportunities.

First, a couple of house rules. Extra feat at level 1, and feats every odd level instead of every 3 levels.
DM eliminated Monastic Training. With it gone, Tashalatora stacks ALL psionic classes, instead of just the one you take Monastic Training for.  Tash is also a monk bonus feat.
LA is already bought off, so I have 5 character levels at ECL5.

Current build
[spoiler]

ECL|CharLevel|Feats|Power 1|Monk1|IUASB, Imp GrappleB, Aberrant Blood, Inhuman Reach| 2|Monk2|TashalatoraB|    3|PsyWar1|Deepspawn, Practiced Manifester(PsyWar)B|Inertial Armor 4|PsyWar2|Link PowerB|Expansion 5|PsyWar3|Improved Natural Attack(UAS)|Grip of Iron

[/spoiler]


I'm planning on taking Shape Soulmeld: Kraken Mantle + Open Lesser Chakra: Arms at some point (after level 12) to get Constrict, which leads me to the split. My next level will be 1 more PsyWar for sure, since I need 2nd level powers to get into:

Soul Manifester from Mind's Eye allows me to progress Psionics (and thus Monk abilities) and Incarnum for 10/10 levels. I'm debating taking 2 levels of Totemist at ECL7 and 8, then taking Soul Manifester for the remaining levels we end up playing, or just staying straight PsyWar.

Straight PsyWar has the advantage of getting my higher level powers more quickly. Since my UAS damage is pretty high, getting Vampiric Weapon at ECL9 would go a long way toward enhancing survivability, as the temp HP I can generate is kinda rediculous. This also gives me more bonus feats I need to get all of my tricks together (I want to take Scorpion's Grasp, Multigrab, and Improved Multigrab for the lulz). On the other hand, having Essentia and binding Girallon Arms to my Totem would give me 4 more natural weapons (on top of my 2 tentacles and UAS) and also increase my Grapple checks to ludacris levels. It would cost me a feat on Azure Talent to get into Soul Manifester, but I'd save a feat on taking Shape Soulmeld: Kraken Mantle. It would also open up my Arm Chakra, but that would come really late, so I'd probably still take Open Lesser Chakra: Arms simply because it gives another +2 untyped bonus on grapple checks and is available 3-4 levels early. I wouldn't lose any MLs with the Totemist dip, since I have Practiced Manifester, but I'd lose the PP, Powers Known, and access to upper level powers. And before you ask, I considered using Ardent as a base instead of PsyWar, but I couldn't get the mantles to work out, and the lack of bonus feats was depressing.

So yea, I'm torn. What to do? Monk2/PsyWar18 or Monk2/PsyWar4/Totemiest2/SoulManifester10/PsyWar+2? Since its RHoD, I'm guessing we'll go through at least level 11, possibly further if the DM continues DMing further. Anyone care to debate the finer points of each build?  Are 2 levels of PsyWar powers and a couple BAB worth 12 levels of Meldshaping?

[carnivore]

actually i would use Psion or Ardent instead of PW. .... your Psionic side will be far stronger if you do... exa:

Monk 4/ Ardent 4/ Totemist 2/ Soul Manifester 10

would give better Monk Abilities and Soulmeld abilities and Psionics .... if you just want Martial Ability:

Monk 4/ Ardent 6/ Slayer 10 ..... is FAR better than Monk 2/ PW 18... since you will have Better BAB, almost double the PP and 9th lvl Powers, even Better saves

even Monk 2/ Psion 18 is better than Monk 2/ PW 18..... but if you go with Psion, i would say try this:

Monk 4/ Psion 6/ Slayer 10 ..... only 8th lvl powers, but better everything else compared to PW

 

[Dictum Mortuum]

Actually, i remember a build that skipped monk completely and took Tashalatora. I don't remember if that works (due to wording and/or requirements), but it'd would be awesome!

[carnivore]

Actually, i remember a build that skipped monk completely and took Tashalatora. I don't remember if that works (due to wording and/or requirements), but it'd would be awesome!

it does not work ......

 

[Dictum Mortuum]

Actually, i remember a build that skipped monk completely and took Tashalatora. I don't remember if that works (due to wording and/or requirements), but it'd would be awesome!

it does not work ......

 

[Wyvernhand]

It does work...kinda.  The first 2 levels of Monk are REALLY front-loaded with bonus feats.  I get Imp Grapple, Imp UAS, and Tash for free atm.  Also, if I went Ardent or Psion, I'd lose 1-2 bonus feats which would mean I'd have to drop Practiced Manifester or Link Power (or both with Ardent), or I'd have to start cutting out things like Inhuman Reach or Deepspawn, which are just plain fun!  Plus, I couldn't get the 3 powers I have from Ardent, and Psion doesn't have Psionic Lion's Charge or Vampiric Weapon, some of my next powers.  So I think I'll keep the Monk2/PsyWar3 intro.

Oh, and we are using fractional BAB and saves, I forgot to mention.  That means that any Monk levels beyond 2 are wasted.

What I was mostly looking for was a decision between the two builds.  They are decently optimized to the power level I want and the DM can handle (maybe a little beyond since he can grapple most things 6 CR ahead of himself).

Thoughts?

[carnivore]

getting fun powers and Using fun powers are two very different things ..... exa:

Monk 2/ PW 8 .... with 22 Wis ... 19 base + 24 bonus PP = 43 PP with 2 @ 3rd lvl, 3 @ 2nd lvl, 3 @ 1st lvl powers Known

compared to

Monk 2/ Ardent 8 ... with 22 Wis ... 58 base + 24 bonus PP = 82 PP and with Practiced Manifester(picked at 3rd lvl) 2@5th lvl, 2@4th lvl, 2 @3rd lvl, 2@2nd lvl, 3@1st lvl
 Powers from 4 mantles to choose:

.... i would pick from these
Natural World[spoiler]Natural World Mantle
Granted Powers: You gain the wild empathy class feature, except the result is determined by 1d20 + manifester level + your Cha modifier.

1 - Chameleon
1 - Metaphysical Claw
1 - Stone Mind
2 - Animal Affinity
2 - Psionic Scent
4 - Metamorphosis
5 - Oak Body
7 - Animate Plants, Psionic
9 - Earthquake, Psionic
[/spoiler]
Time[spoiler]Time Mantle
Granted Powers: You gain a +2 bonus on initiative checks. In addition, once per day, you can expend your psionic focus as an immediate action to delay the onset of one damaging attack or effect. Instead of taking the damage immediately, as normal, you take it 1 round later. If, in the intervening turn, you gain some immunity that would have protected you from the damage, it does not protect you from the delayed damage. You are subject to the damage as if you had taken it when the blow or effect was struck.

1 - Deceleration
2 - Sustenance
3 - Time Hop
5 - Anticipatory Strike
6 - Temporal Acceleration
8 - Time Hop, Mass
9 - Time Regression
[/spoiler]
 Freedom[spoiler]Freedom Mantle
Granted ability: +10' Speed while Psionicly Focused. Expend focus to gain bonus to Resist or Escape Grapple = ML

1st lvl: Dimension Hop
2nd lvl: Hustle
4th lvl: Psionic Fly
5th lvl: Freedom of Movement,psionic
5th lvl: Teleport,psionic
6th lvl: Evade Burst
8th lvl: Greater Teleport, Psionic
[/spoiler]
Conflict[spoiler]Conflict Mantle
Granted Powers: You are more in tune with martial concepts and gain the Weapon Focus feat as a bonus feat with a weapon of your choice.

1 - Metaphysical Weapon
1 - Prescience, Offensive
2 - Psionic Lion's Charge
3 - Dimension Slide
4 - Immovability
5 - Psychic Crush
5 - Graft Weapon
8 - Spirit of War
[/spoiler]

 

[awaken DM golem]

You gotta meet Carnivore at least 99% of the way ... 

PsyWar2 vs. Ardent 2 with Prac Mani feat (so long as you end up with 4 more non-psi levels)
You are down 3 feats, up 1 extra 3rd level power.
Maybe this is a wash ... given a specific build, and situation.

But after that it's no contest.
PsyWar prog = 1 2 2* 2 3 3* 3 4 4* 4 ... *=feat but only if still PsyWar
Ardent prog == 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 7 7 8 and better


Inc 1 / Totem 2 / Ardent 2 / SoulManifester 10 but switching back and forth on the incarnum classes
gets more binding locations.
Monk 2 gets the bonus feats, but when?
Tash is free? Niice!
This would delay the Ardent prog by just 1 level ... not too bad.
Cans the BAB though.
Hey look , it's Carnivore.

[Wyvernhand]

I'm not seeing Expansion or Intertial Armor anywhere on any of those mantles.  Also, since I'd only have 2 actual Ardent levels, I'd only have 3 mantles (2 at first, 1 at 2nd).  I'd probably be progressing it with Soul Manifester, so I'd never get another mantle.

Like I said, I already went over Ardent with a fine toothed comb.  My DM even let me make up a Mantle (Savage Combat, power was a +4 Str check, and it had Expansion, Grip of Iron, and Psionic Lion's Charge), but the loss of the feats made me a sad panda.  I'm kinda attached to the tentacles I get from Deepspawn (along with the grapple bonus), they've been a wonderful RP item.  I'm kinda locked in my first 5 levels (Monk2/PsyWar3)

So yea, I guess that brings me back to my origional question, do I take 15 more PsyWar levels and try to get to Vampiric Weapon (which, as a Tash will give me a ton of temp HP) or do I take 1 more PsyWar level, then 2 levels of Totemist, then 10 levels of Soul Manifester?  This is the question I'd like answered, please! 

[Senevri]

I hear Soul Manifester is awesome. Air Walk, Evasion, more damage, spend feat to get cheaper augmentation, incorporeality, etherealness....

[Wyvernhand]

So yea...about my question.  Anyone have any thoughts on which would be better?  Monk2/PsyWar18 or Monk2/PsyWar4/Totemist2/SoulManifester10/PsyWar+2?  Are there any fine points I'm missing?

[carnivore]

Monk 2/ PsyWar 4/ Totemist 2/ SoulManifester 10/ PsyWar+2 would be better than Monk 2/ PW 18

but

Monk 2/ xxxxx 4/ Totemist 2/ SoulManifester 10/ xxxxx+2 .... xxxxx = anything(Psion, Ardent, Wilder) would be better than PW

since you will only have 6 levels of PW, you are only gaining 3 bonus feats .... i personally would rather have the PP and Powers Known and the Higher level powers that these(Psion, Ardent, Wilder) would give... in fact Psion 6 will also give you 2 bonus feats over Double the PP and Double the Powers known and 8th lvl Powers

you might just try the Monk 2/ PW 18 ... to see how it plays, and what the weaknesses are .... that will give you a better idea of how to achive what you are looking for

 

[Wyvernhand]

I think I'm gonna go with Soul Manifester.  What are some good Totemist soulmelds that give you decent things even if you don't invest much essentia into them?  I'm probably gonna put some essentia into Azure Talent to make up for the PP I'm losing by not taking PsyWar levels, and the rest will probably go in Girallon Claws to increase my grapple checks.  I was thinking Wormtail Belt for the +2 NA, since my AC is surprisingly decent for a grappler (no dex to lose, decent Wis, and Inertial Armor help), Blink Shirt (can put essentia into it OOC for utility teleports), and maybe something like Shedu Crown for immunity to bull rush?