Author Topic: Melee back row harrier -- where do I go from here?  (Read 2210 times)

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weenog

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Melee back row harrier -- where do I go from here?
« on: September 02, 2010, 04:20:13 PM »
My group are still bouncing ideas off each other for the Red Hand of Doom game.  One player came up with this:
[spoiler]LN Catfolk Monk 5

Str 18, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 10.

Flaw: Dodge
1: Mobility
Monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist
Monk 2: Combat Reflexes
3: Improved Grapple

Balance +4, Climb +5, Escape Artist +4, Hide +4, Jump +14, Knowledge (arcana) +0, Knowledge (religion) +0, Listen +5, Move Silently +8, Spot +2, Tumble +5

Monk's belt
[/spoiler]

I told her that didn't look terribly useful to me, and asked her what the heck she was actually going for.  She told me she wants to be able to get at any non-flying spellcasters or commanders that are hanging back ASAP, and prevent them from doing anything to make our lives miserable.  She wants to be able to move far, but doesn't want to be charging.  And she seems to like the monk style in general.

I suggested she try something more like this:
[spoiler]LA +0 race whirling frenzy wolf totem barbarian 2/fighter 2/fist of the forest 2

Str 17 (16 +1 levels), Dex 14, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 8 (+/- racial adjustments)

Flaw (if applicable): Open
Human (if applicable): Open
1: Great Fortitude
Barbarian 2: Improved Trip
3: Mage Slayer
Fighter 1: Improved Unarmed Strike
Fighter 2: Power Attack
6: Knock-Down

Skills: Handle Animal 4 ranks, Spellcraft 2 ranks cc, Survival 4 ranks, any leftovers open (probably into Balance and/or Tumble cc).

13,000 gp to spend

This should give her a speed 20' over her racial norm (most likely 50', same as she would've gotten with a catfolk with 5 monk levels), and make it a bit easier to make life suck for land-bound back row enemies.  She can just move up and whack them, put them on the ground with a free trip from Knock-Down, then whack them again with a free attack from Improved Trip.  They're not safe to cast because Mage Slayer forbids casting defensively, and they can't 5' step away because they're prone.  On the next round they should still be close enough for her to open up with a four-attack full attack (two from BAB +6/+1, one more from whirling frenzy, and one bite from feral trance) and finish it.  And it's somewhat monkish, though it's a wild monk that can do some damage and has some hit points.[/spoiler]

I need to extend this out to level 10 or 12 so it will last to the end of the game, and I'm not sure where to take it.  Alternative magic systems and tome of battle are most likely out, so that cuts options down a lot (I'd probably be suggesting some sort of psywar or swordsage otherwise).  I'm considering Bear Warrior, but after a lot of bad luck with a ranger's animal companions she might be pretty burned out on animals in general, and reject that.

I think Improved Initiative and Combat Reflexes would be good options for feats to take with future levels, or flaws or a human bonus feat if applicable, but more options to suggest would be good.

I'm also not quite sure what to suggest to do with the money.  Boots of Striding and Springing would be nice if not for Feral Trance destroying gloves and boots, is there something similar that fits into a different body slot and doesn't cost too much?  What else belongs on there?  Personally I'd probably go with the best two-hander and mithral breastplate I could get, but that sort of pisses all over the whole monk thing, so it probably won't sit well with her.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Added a little colour for clarity.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 08:28:14 PM by weenog »
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Saeomon

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Re: Melee back row harrier -- where do I go from here?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2010, 04:41:10 PM »
A Monk with a WIS penalty? WTF?

Here's my suggestion:

Human Psychic Warrior 5
Str 18, Dex 10, Con 15, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 8

Reach Weapon + Expansion, Offensive Precognition, Psionic Lion's Charge and Hustle

If she's dead set on grappling, add in Grip of Iron.

weenog

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Re: Melee back row harrier -- where do I go from here?
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2010, 04:47:12 PM »
Seems she only wanted monk for the speed boost and the bonus feats, not a big unarmored AC improvement.  At least with Fist of the Forest, her unarmored AC comes from Con instead which she'll want anyway, and it's the only class feature she loses if she wears light or medium armor.

I like the idea of psywar myself, and throwing in Speed of Thought would help with closing distance, but our DM is not a big fan of psionic classes.

I'm considering shifting some points from Con into Dex with the build stub I'm suggesting.  Dex enhancement goes in the gloves slot, which Fist of the Forest fucks up, but Con enhancement is in the neck slot and that's no problem.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 04:53:21 PM by weenog »
"We managed to make an NPC puke an undead monster."
"That sounds like a victory to me."

BruceLeeroy

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Re: Melee back row harrier -- where do I go from here?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2010, 06:53:24 PM »
Any physical enhancement can go in the belt slot as well. See the Belt of Magnificence.

weenog

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Re: Melee back row harrier -- where do I go from here?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2010, 07:15:22 PM »
Any physical enhancement can go in the belt slot as well. See the Belt of Magnificence.
Not really relevant with the level and wealth range we'll be working with, but thanks for the reminder nonetheless.
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lans

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Re: Melee back row harrier -- where do I go from here?
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2010, 08:04:30 PM »
Monk 2 for the Invisible Fist ACF and speed boost?
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emaNsdrawkcaB

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Re: Melee back row harrier -- where do I go from here?
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2010, 08:18:46 PM »
Monk 2/PsyWar + Tashalatora?

weenog

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Re: Melee back row harrier -- where do I go from here?
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2010, 08:30:25 PM »
Psi stuff is not going to fly, unfortunately.

What's the source on Invisible Fist?  ACF thread says "EoE" but I don't know which book that means.
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emaNsdrawkcaB

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Re: Melee back row harrier -- where do I go from here?
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2010, 11:29:04 PM »

Greyfell

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Re: Melee back row harrier -- where do I go from here?
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2010, 12:18:48 AM »
EoE is "exemplars of Evil" iirc.  Has some cool alt. class features in it besides all the nasty end of the world stuff :)
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skydragonknight

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Re: Melee back row harrier -- where do I go from here?
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2010, 01:26:18 AM »
Maybe Occult Slayer? Vicious Strike doubles damage from readied actions to disrupt a spellcaster, which will be useful against swift action spells (which don't provoke).
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Surreal

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Re: Melee back row harrier -- where do I go from here?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2010, 01:36:41 AM »
Barbarian 2/Scout 3 is a pretty solid base, giving you +20 foot speed and improved uncanny dodge. Another two levels in scout nets a bonus feat and evasion. You could even dip FotF afterwards, but I don't think that's worth sucking up the feat investment.

Perhaps a more practical approach would be to build a mobile shadowpouncer. That way you don't have to worry about how to cross over enemy lines, you just pop over and start bringing the pain.
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Glutton

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Re: Melee back row harrier -- where do I go from here?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2010, 02:14:04 AM »
dwarf and deepwarden, +1 for black blood cultist, Primeval maybe?

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Melee back row harrier -- where do I go from here?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2010, 02:55:21 AM »
feytouched 0/ Half-fey transition 1 doubles your base land speed as [good] flight.
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Re: Melee back row harrier -- where do I go from here?
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2010, 05:25:14 AM »
do the ranger arcane hunter acf?  i do love the monk for the extra speed. but really thats the best part of a monk imo
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skydragonknight

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Re: Melee back row harrier -- where do I go from here?
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2010, 06:50:34 AM »
Perhaps a more practical approach would be to build a mobile shadowpouncer. That way you don't have to worry about how to cross over enemy lines, you just pop over and start bringing the pain.

Looks like game ends at 10-12th and most shadowpouncers aren't even that great until around 12th.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.