Author Topic: Convention-style games and railroading  (Read 6620 times)

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veekie

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Re: Convention-style games and railroading
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2010, 09:20:22 AM »
"OK, the thieves guild has now betrayed you, your extended family is dead, except your sister who is working for the BBEG, your wife has been possessed by a demon, and your dog has fleas.  Isn't this dramatic?"
You forget the bit about your son being the BBEG.

Though more seriously, sometimes it happens when players don't know enough about the setting to do more and also because of the level of effort needed to make nothing compared to something.
Besides, if you're creating a character which you had already fully envisioned earlier, it's easier to create a character in isolation.
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RobbyPants

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Re: Convention-style games and railroading
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2010, 10:18:51 AM »
Besides, if you're creating a character which you had already fully envisioned earlier, it's easier to create a character in isolation.
I suffer from that a lot, because my friend who DM's for me has been working on a campaign world for over four years.  There's a lot that stays the same, and a lot that he makes up or reveals mid game.  So, I try to take what I know into account, but for all practical purposes, there's a lot that I find out about after the fact.  So, whether or not I try to, I end up making my PCs in isolation, even when I think I'm not.
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dither

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Re: Convention-style games and railroading
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2010, 06:56:17 PM »
Somehow, in the last couple of years, I've wound up with a lot of players who didn't want to be attached to anything in the setting at all. They'd be all, like: "I'm a wizard, but I got that way through independent study." "I'm a rogue and a thief, but I was never in a thieves' guild." "I adventure with these guys, but we aren't actually a group with any loyalties to each other." And other bullshit like that.
Sounds like players who are fed up with GMs ruining everything in their backstory.

"OK, the thieves guild has now betrayed you, your extended family is dead, except your sister who is working for the BBEG, your wife has been possessed by a demon, and your dog has fleas.  Isn't this dramatic?"

See, now, that's what I would've thought, too, except they were all players who'd mostly never roleplayed before, so it left me utterly bewildered. Some of the more experienced players I got were all about injecting their own backgrounds into the story, but the majority of players I got, who were all newbies to roleplaying, wanted nothing to do with the setting or each other.
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Nietzscheese

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Re: Convention-style games and railroading
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2010, 07:44:55 PM »
When I run a one-shot adventure I always assume its going to go in the opposite direction i intend.  Railroading isn't even an option.  In one shots my players default to dangerous zealots, unbending idealists, or just plain chaotic/x.  When we play a campaign we develop well defined characters and role play.  When its a one nighter...
'save the village' turns into 'burn the village'
'help the NG king' becomes 'usurp the NG king'
'help defend the thorp' becomes 'free slaves'.... which then turns into 'sacrifice the slaves and consult the Book of Vile Darkness to see what we get'... whcih turns into 'where is the next closest town? our bloodlust rages!'

The best was a one-night D20 Modern 'zombie outbreak'.  They were on the top floor of a 15 story building, each one had rolled for a random football position and then applied their ability scores and chose feats that would optimized the ability to play football (ie, Running Back = Mobility).  They were returning pro-bowlers for a pro football team in the middle of contract negotiations when it becomes apparant that a zombie out-break has occured in the building.  In the midst of all the comotion that ensues as zombies rush up the stairs... the Linebacker locks himself in the main office of the owner... and then procedes to rape the 72 year old owner of the franchies.  It was really awkward as this occured during rounds...
Round 4: Grapples the owner
Round 5: Pins the owner on his desk
Round 6: Removes the owners pants
***Everyone else: WTF?!?!?!***

veekie

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Re: Convention-style games and railroading
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2010, 03:46:38 PM »
See, now, that's what I would've thought, too, except they were all players who'd mostly never roleplayed before, so it left me utterly bewildered. Some of the more experienced players I got were all about injecting their own backgrounds into the story, but the majority of players I got, who were all newbies to roleplaying, wanted nothing to do with the setting or each other.
Simplest reason, it's difficult to integrate with the background and setting, particularly for newbies who don't know their fellow players' styles well enough to mesh easily, don't discuss enough to entangle each other, don't know enough about the setting to wire in easily and above all, don't have the innate sense of how to just make stuff up.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

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dither

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Re: Convention-style games and railroading
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2010, 04:43:36 PM »
See, now, that's what I would've thought, too, except they were all players who'd mostly never roleplayed before, so it left me utterly bewildered. Some of the more experienced players I got were all about injecting their own backgrounds into the story, but the majority of players I got, who were all newbies to roleplaying, wanted nothing to do with the setting or each other.
Simplest reason, it's difficult to integrate with the background and setting, particularly for newbies who don't know their fellow players' styles well enough to mesh easily, don't discuss enough to entangle each other, don't know enough about the setting to wire in easily and above all, don't have the innate sense of how to just make stuff up.

That actually makes sense to me in this (bolded) context. Given the people I was working with tended to be artsy types, I hadn't considered that they might actually not be creative beyond, say, their given field. They have clear ideas about what they want their character to be, but they're painting a figure and a background that's in isolation of everything around them. :/
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[spoiler]
Quote from: Shadowhunter
Quote from: Flay Crimsonwind
"Vegeta! What does the scouter say about Dither's power level?"
It's over nine thousand!

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A SECTION OF THE CAVERN HAS COLLAPSED!
dither, Miner, has died after colliding with an obstacle!
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Convention-style games and railroading
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2010, 06:33:00 PM »
when it seems like people are having issues creating their background we normally made a questionnaire for their character to fill out. It had normal things like stuff about family and home town. It originally came about due to a problem player changing their background to get stuff or as an excuse to do things that were disruptive to the game. Since then it has been a great tool to help new players flesh out characters by making them think about how that character got to the point where the game begins.
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veekie

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Re: Convention-style games and railroading
« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2010, 06:56:53 PM »
Well, the sort of creativity needed to pull a background out of thin air is unlike most other forms, not goal oriented. You tend to see a progression of:
No Background
Goal Based(tight) - Background essentially describing character mechanically
Goal Based(loose) - Background describing character, sans personality, but with integration of non-essential things like setting.
Sweet Spot - Background matches character, with integration into external elements and individual quirks.
Story based(loose) - Background story makes sense in context, but with little to do with character capabilities
Story based(tight) - Story has little to do with setting, rules or character, world of their own.
No Background.

Which end they start from does not depend on their background(arts or science), but on personality. Mechanics heavy games like GURPS and D&D tend to spawn from the top first, while story heavy games like Burning Wheel and other more abstract systems favor the bottom path. So where you start from depends on your personality + your first game.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Balog

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Re: Convention-style games and railroading
« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2010, 09:10:48 PM »
Bit late, but to address the rant based on my comment...

When I DM, I tend to develop a loose plot, with discrete encounters that are adaptable. Stat out an NPC, then have the PC's meet and fight him wherever they want to go. And the plot is there, and players will (generally) follow it if you've made it interesting. And if they don't you have an issue with the players, not an issue with your DM style.

I've never made a "You are the One told of in prophecy, and if you don't take Quest X the world will end." One is offering a course that the players choose because it's a cooperative game, one is forcing them to do what you want. The difference between offering a guest a drink, and holding them down and shoving a funnel in their mouth.
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Re: Convention-style games and railroading
« Reply #49 on: October 16, 2010, 12:44:29 PM »
Convention style games mandate railroading. That doesn't mean it's a good thing, it just means its something you have to tolerate as a result of standardized play. Actually it's a result of adventure paths, but whatever.

I'd say you're confusing expected with good.
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