Author Topic: Low Level Party Optimization  (Read 1967 times)

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Amechra

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Low Level Party Optimization
« on: August 29, 2010, 12:52:15 AM »
Does anyone here have combinations of PCs that synergize well at levels 1-4?

Because if you do, please post them here.

1st
[spoiler][/spoiler]
2nd
[spoiler][/spoiler]
3rd
[spoiler][/spoiler]
4th
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Mixed Level
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

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Amechra

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Re: Low Level Party Optimization
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2010, 12:52:27 AM »
Reserved
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Amechra

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Re: Low Level Party Optimization
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2010, 12:52:42 AM »
Reserved
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Amechra

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Re: Low Level Party Optimization
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2010, 12:52:54 AM »
Reserved
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Low Level Party Optimization
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2010, 01:37:25 AM »
I've got one for level 5:

Spellthief 5, Factotum 5, Dragonfire Adept 5 (or with a marshal 1 dip) and Warlock 5.  One of them is a halfling with the healing dragonmark.

Synergies: Spellthief can turn the factotum's one/day spell-likes into infinite use spammables, and heal the party infinitely from the healing dragonmark.  He can also benefit from 24 hour invocations from two lists.  The DFA gives battlefield control, so the warlock can pick them off at range with impunity.  The factotum and spellthief can both do skillmonkey tasks, aided by the DFA's auras, and overall you have a very mobile and varied team. 

And with the right races/feat/spell loadout, you could in theory keep fighting with occasional one-minute breaks for centuries.
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Saeomon

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Re: Low Level Party Optimization
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2010, 02:40:31 AM »
Looking purely at in-combat strategy, in a party containing a Psion and a Rogue, the Psion can set up so many opportunities for the Rogue to get in its sneak attack damage at levels 1-5.

Creating Astral Constructs to flank or grapple.
Using Energy Stun or Psionic Blast to Stun foes.
Slicking areas with Psionic Grease to force Balance checks.

Great synergy between these classes at low levels.

Mixster

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Re: Low Level Party Optimization
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2010, 08:11:36 AM »
Wizard 1, Rogue 1, Bard 1, Cleric 1

The bard uses inspire courage, and the cleric summons, the wizard uses grease to enable sneak attacks from the TWF throwing rogue.

They all get a lot of boni to hit, have plenty of decent tanks (at level 1, celestial monkeys are huge tanks due to their CR), can deal a lot of damage, and still shut down some opponents.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

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RobbyPants

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Re: Low Level Party Optimization
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2010, 09:36:38 AM »
Warblade for general melee usefulness.
Crusader for melee tanking and free healing.
Focused Conjurer for solid crowd control (and keeping the above two alive).
Cleric or Druid for secondary tanking, buffs and other utility magic.

The basic strategy is to let the tanks do their thing while having the casters play the resource management game.  A few CC spells here and there can divide and conquer the enemies pretty easily, saving on any healing that needs to be done.  Depending on the DM, the crusader can heal everyone to full HP at the end of the fight.  The choice of cleric or druid will have a lot to do with how they support.


Depending on the situation, you don't need a rogue for Trapfinding, and the conjurer can summon guys to spring traps.  In theory, one of them could dip rogue for Trapfinding.  I wouldn't have one of the casters do it, but the warblade might be able to pull it off.

Regarding the choice of cleric or druid, it depends on if you value the animal companion and spontaneous summons more, or if you are going to try and pull off any persisted buffs with the cleric or make use of domain devotions.  A cleric archer could be a pretty solid choice.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 09:39:53 AM by RobbyPants »
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Mixster

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Re: Low Level Party Optimization
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2010, 10:29:16 AM »
Or the cleric could simply take Kobold Domain and be a better trapfinder than any rogue would ever be.

If I had to optimize a party at low level it would probably be something like:

Conjurer, with Abrupt Jaunt
Warblade
CoDzilla
Spellthief that goes into the master spellthief line

The spellthief would be the trapmonkey, while CoD and warblade tanks. Mr. Conjurer does battlefield controlling and stuff.

The warblade could, or could not be a changeling dipping into warshaper at level 5-8.

However, 2 druids, a wizard, and a Kobold domain cleric would probably handle most things better than those guys.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

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KellKheraptis

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Re: Low Level Party Optimization
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2010, 10:56:15 AM »
I just started a level 5 game last night with this conundrum, actually, with only 3 players (myself being one of them).  The DM is cool with revising characters after the first session to fit players' playstyle, and the kender rogue (eek, run!) and elf warlock are most likely going to turn into a kender swordsage and elf duskblade.  I ran a druid, and am switching to my original GOD wizard, due to inability to rein in the awesome, and since I have access to a domain that's swappable, can double as the healer/trapfinder depending upon which domain I'm using.  And if nothing else, there's always Summon Dead Celestial Monkey for that :P

The kender - Uses a gnomish quickrazor to awesome effect, and effective trapfinder.  Skills through the roof.  Might not even need the swordsage makeover, due to CC/flanking/quickrazor being badass setting up SA

The elf - My wife's character...if I'd known she wanted mainly to melee, I'd have given her glaive :P  Duskblade feels more fitting though, since she melees more than blasts, and makes her a mini-buffbot.

My Wizzy - Going into War Weaver, nuff said.  Probably going to cap out with Incantatrix for nifty Tapestry tricks, and definitely snagging a ToAL.

Once we get a little higher level I'll be packing a summon/bind for extra tanking, and most likely will be able to ensure the two ladies are never without enough buffs to make their lives easier.  We started without any magical items (2nd Ed style DM), but with enough buffs even that shouldn't be an issue.  And afterall, a prone, entangled, exhausted melee opponent is pretty well just dead meat anyhow :P
« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 12:28:06 PM by KellKheraptis »
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RobbyPants

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Re: Low Level Party Optimization
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2010, 11:52:58 AM »
However, 2 druids, a wizard, and a Kobold domain cleric would probably handle most things better than those guys.
At levels 1-4?  How are you thinking of building the druids?

I'm not saying they can't tank, but at those levels, it will be their Animal Companions doing the tanking, as they don't have Wild Shape.

Although, each druid is essentially a full caster with an armored fleshraker as a class feature, so that might be pretty solid at 4th level.



Beguiler could be a decent rogue-replacement, but at levels 1-4, their spells known are limited enough that a lot of different foes will be immune to almost everything they can cast.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]