Author Topic: Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making  (Read 48803 times)

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JaronK

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Re: Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2010, 12:38:09 AM »
If it helps any, I made an army designed to be mostly level 1s with a few level 2s that was none the less very effective.  It was also realistic, in that costs per soldier were considered and resource management was important.  Here's the basics.  Unless otherwise noted, everyone's human and level 1:

Infantry Groups:  multiple blocks of 40 troopers, 4 deep by 10 wide.  2 Marshals (Both level 2, using auras to buff their troops) in the back center, along with 2 Binders (both with Improved Binding and using Malphas, with their birds back at the command post to receive orders for the unit.  Two other birds from the command post sat on their shoulders, allowing for instant communication with the unit).  The rest of the men were Crusaders with Brigadine Armor, Heavy Spiked Shields and Awl Pikes.  Exotic Weapon Proficiency on all of them, as well as Extra Granted Maneuver.  Two had Leading the Charge.  Two had Bolstering Voice.  Those four were all in the back.  Of the remaining 32, half had Martial Stance and half had Iron Guard's Glare, and all are arranged in checkerboard formation so the stances are spread out.  Tactics are simple... move forward with shields equipped and pikes held.  Use Martial Stance to heal from any arrow damage.  When in combat, use pikes with shields on the back.  The whole unit gets an AC bump from Iron Guard's Glare (because everyone is in range of at least two others with the stance) and they all heal each other.  The front line simply holds their pikes once they've engaged the target and fights with their spiked shields if necessary. 

Archery Groups:  2 Marshals as above, two binders as above, 36 Fighters with Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, and Coordinated Archery.  Lots of arrow damage, especially considering the command group's bonus.  They use Compound Longbows and Brigadine Armor, and have Longspears in case they're hit in melee.

Command Group:  14 bards, 10 of whom have dragonfire inspiration.  10 are various dragon decended races (Kobolds, Dragonborn, etc) using Dragonfire Inspiration, with 5 types of inspiration used (Fire, Cold, Electricity, Sonic, Acid), so two of each.  12 (including all dragons) use Masterwork War Drums, which double their normal bardic bonus to hit, which in turn yields 2d6 energy damage.  The two remaining use the normal war drums to provide a better will bonus against fear.  The net effect is +10d6 energy damage to all friendly troops, +2 to hit, and the usual bardic will bonus.  Additionally, two binders per unit exist for communication, and more binders are there, also with Malphas, scouting for the army.  The commander is also here with the command group, issuing orders.  He should be an Archivist, Bardic Knack Bard, Cloistered Cleric, or similar high level command class.  He uses the intel from the field to coordinate the battle effort. 

Also used are scout groups, each with two communcation binders and a bunch of Rogues, Scouts, and Factotums.  These hunt down flankers.  Also, there are knight groups... heavier cavalry with decent armor.

JaronK

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Re: Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making
« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2010, 02:58:16 AM »
That sounds absolutely beautiful, JaronK.  I'd probably throw in some magic users to provide Battlefield Control/on site buffing.  Death 3/Cleric level 5 gets Animate Dead so you can booster your undead formations and you can throw up a Wind Wall during battle to protect against arrows and Stabilize the dying troops.  One or two per forward formation should be good.
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Prime32

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Re: Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making
« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2010, 10:10:32 AM »
Don't forget teamwork benefits (PHB2 and DMG2). IIRC there's a maximum of eight per team. There's one which increases attack bonuses when charging, one for massed archery, one which increases Ref DCs the more times an enemy has to make Ref saves in a round... And they're free.

Then there's stuff like Phalanx Fighting, which grants +3 AC/+1 Ref to soldiers in formation (note that a shield/spiked shield is a light melee weapon). A group of 1st-level crusaders in full plate (or something lighter, if they have decent Dex) with that feat and iron guard glare could get ACs of 24.

For higher-level troops, there's Formation Expert for +1 AC/+2 attack and free move actions.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 08:05:50 PM by Prime32 »
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making
« Reply #43 on: August 11, 2010, 08:01:40 PM »
Dragon Magazine has War Magic, which is great for dealing with armies if you shadow conjuration/evocation it.
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Theomniadept

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Re: Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2010, 02:27:29 AM »
Okay, so I have to ask: where is a compendium for the leadership rules? I've read the feat itself but a lot of the rules escape me; first off, where does it say you can make a horse your cohort, or make your special mount your cohort? Also, if you do, how does that work? Does your mount just get a certain number of class levels of your choosing or is it just more of its own monster class?

For example, let's say my character is a halfling with levels of Paladin 6, Beastmaster 1, Wild Plains Outrider 3, and Halfling Outrider 10 (yeah, the superdog build). If I designate my Animal Companion/Special Mount as my cohort does it suddenly gain more hit dice or does it suddenly gain more levels to put in classes?

Sorry for approaching this like a noob but I had to ask, because I've only thus far been able to find people who say that it can be used a certain way but never explained how.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 02:38:10 AM by Theomniadept »

zaulsiin

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Re: Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making
« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2010, 09:57:02 AM »
Okay, so I have to ask: where is a compendium for the leadership rules? I've read the feat itself but a lot of the rules escape me; first off, where does it say you can make a horse your cohort, or make your special mount your cohort? Also, if you do, how does that work? Does your mount just get a certain number of class levels of your choosing or is it just more of its own monster class?

For example, let's say my character is a halfling with levels of Paladin 6, Beastmaster 1, Wild Plains Outrider 3, and Halfling Outrider 10 (yeah, the superdog build). If I designate my Animal Companion/Special Mount as my cohort does it suddenly gain more hit dice or does it suddenly gain more levels to put in classes?

Sorry for approaching this like a noob but I had to ask, because I've only thus far been able to find people who say that it can be used a certain way but never explained how.

The DMG has most of the info that you're looking for. ~pg 104-105 for info on cohorts in general, pg 106 has info on PCs as leaders, and pg 199-200 has info on the Special Cohorts (like the Paladin special mount, etc).

Theomniadept

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Re: Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2010, 12:50:34 PM »
Okay, thanks for the info on that, but I still have just one more question:

So if I designate my mount to be my cohort and I'm, says, 16th level, my mount would then have 9 PC levels? If it were the superdog build from before would that dog have all those bonus hit dice AND nine player levels to work with??

zaulsiin

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Re: Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2010, 04:08:49 PM »
Okay, thanks for the info on that, but I still have just one more question:

So if I designate my mount to be my cohort and I'm, says, 16th level, my mount would then have 9 PC levels? If it were the superdog build from before would that dog have all those bonus hit dice AND nine player levels to work with??

Leadership allows you to attract a cohort with an ECL of up to 2 levels lower than yourself, and the DMG says that using a special mount/animal companion as your cohort adds a +2 LA to the mount. In order to calculate your mount's ECL, you would take it's current Hit Dice total (including any benefits it has from being your mount/animal companion, etc) and add any relevant Level Adjustments (such as the +2 noted above). If your mount somehow managed to have class levels as well, then these would also be added to the equation, but I don't think that your "superdog" does. As long as this total does not exceed your character's ECL-2, then it is a valid choice as a cohort (assuming your leadership score is high enough, of course).

This has become sort of a roundabout way of answering your question, but to the heart of the matter: Your mount does not "suddenly gain more levels" if you choose it as your cohort. Leadership simply gives a maximum level for a creature that you could attract as a cohort. At least, that's how I've always interpreted it.

Now, as far as I can tell from the rules, your mount/cohort would then begin to get a share of your Experience Points, and I'm really not sure how things would work from there. I'm afraid I don't have much experience in leveling up non-standard races. Would they begin to gain class levels like a normal character, or would it translate to more racial hit dice or something? Someone else will have to help you with that one.

McPoyo

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Re: Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making
« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2010, 04:16:49 PM »
They would gain more racial HD, unless their progression states "By character class".
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Theomniadept

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Re: Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making
« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2010, 05:14:01 PM »
Okay, my bad, I saw the table and assumed that was the creature's level, but that's just a cap for the cohort - I understand now. So Megamutt can't qualify as a cohort - just making sure.

Stormcrow

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Re: Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making
« Reply #50 on: September 08, 2010, 01:53:48 AM »

Catty Nebulart

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Re: Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making
« Reply #51 on: September 08, 2010, 04:46:47 PM »
And aye, White Raven's capstone seems pretty bonkers.  If you could some how move everyone (including yourself) 10 feet back then you could do it again the next round.

Have someone bullrush, resolve all attacks first, then resolve the bullrush to shove the target back :) Works best if you can also imobilize/stun the target somehow so it won't move closer on it's turn.

May I recomend tharlherd with a martial disciple thrall? They get imobilization attacks and the white raven capstone. :)
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Re: Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2010, 12:36:58 AM »
What about planar binding, gate, simulacrum, and Handle Animal for getting 'pets?'
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Re: Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making
« Reply #53 on: September 15, 2010, 02:04:36 PM »
Have someone bullrush, resolve all attacks first, then resolve the bullrush to shove the target back :) Works best if you can also imobilize/stun the target somehow so it won't move closer on it's turn.

May I recomend tharlherd with a martial disciple thrall? They get imobilization attacks and the white raven capstone. :)
Tiger-blooded works for this. Have your own character be tiger-blooded. If you're next to the opponent, sudden leap backwards, War Master's Charge them, get a free bull rush, move them backwards, allies charge.