Author Topic: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?  (Read 5863 times)

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Waazraath

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Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« on: August 24, 2010, 06:05:01 PM »
For a campaign that will start soon, I'll play a conjurer with abjuration & evocation as prohibited schools. I know dropping abjuration is normally not optimal, but circumstances make it a sensible choice. Nevertheless, are there ways to gain something that's similair to dispel magic but not (abj) if I really need to get rid of a magical effect? (build is wizard 3 / binder 1 / anima mage 10 / unseen seer 2 / incantatrix 4 btw)

Thnx!

veekie

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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 06:13:16 PM »
If you really need one, theres always the Dispelling or Greater Dispelling weapon enhancement from Magic Item Compendium, which should do for the few times a day you really need a dispel.
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CantripN

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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 06:14:36 PM »
Greater Shadow Evocation for Slashing Dispel? Using a Runestaff with UMD? Bind Karsus?

Really, there are better ways to get it done than casting it, if you're not of a very high CL. Like buffing allies so they get rid of it better via higher CL/firepower/whatever else.
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NeverGetDrunkButStaySober

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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 06:16:42 PM »
For all those spells that Wizards inconsistently categorizes (eg, Orb spells vs. Fireball, Shield vs. Mage Armor), dispelling effects are fairly consistent members of the Abjuration school. What circumstances are these, anyway, that make it a good idea to drop Abjuration? Especially when Incantatrix will be forcing you to drop yet another school?

veekie

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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2010, 06:21:00 PM »
Actually, not THAT much harm in dropping abjurations, honestly, you lose a few staple spells, but most parties with a secondary caster or a cleric cover those reasonably well.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

ninjarabbit

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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2010, 06:38:13 PM »
Actually, not THAT much harm in dropping abjurations, honestly, you lose a few staple spells, but most parties with a secondary caster or a cleric cover those reasonably well.

Pretty much this

skydragonknight

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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2010, 06:53:31 PM »
No real options for Conjurers here. Transmuters have an ACF in Unearthed Arcana that lets them learn any Wizard spell as a Transmutation spell (limited number), even from a barred school, but that's all I can think of.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Nunkuruji

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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2010, 07:25:03 PM »
Isn't there an affiliation with a dispel, or is that only counterspell?

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2010, 07:27:25 PM »
Magic drinking (KoK PG) is better than a dispelling weapon by a fairly large margin.
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Waazraath

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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2010, 07:36:50 PM »
What circumstances are these, anyway, that make it a good idea to drop Abjuration? Especially when Incantatrix will be forcing you to drop yet another school?

- DM gave the hint that there'll be quite a lot 'familiar unfriendly environments'
- needing an acf for a familiair, I want abrubt jaunt, need to specialize in conjuration for that, so need to drop 2 schools
- can't drop the others because of the concept (the concept is ray caster debuffer, from mid level debuffer / blaster, doing loads of sneak attack damage with malphas/andromalius and metamagic like twin, quicken and ocular spell), so can't drop necromancy (loads of rays), illusion (greater invisibility, shadow evocations) and enchantment (power words, ray of dizzynes), other schools seem obvious.
- other partymembers consist of cleric archer, gish and wiz5/manconvoker5/incantatrix 10, so dispelling can be done by others.

Considering the advise I got so far (in my own words "no worries, let another caster do the dispelling"), I think I'll take it. Just wanted to be sure, cause several of the wizard handbooks (DM's, and the one from the logicninja) advised against it. I'll check out if I can find an affiliation though.

Thnx once more!

awaken DM golem

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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2010, 08:31:34 PM »
UPD a Dispel Psionics item ... works about the same.

Dragonamedrake

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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2010, 08:48:16 PM »
Isn't there rules for Duel specialist somewhere. You could specialize in Transmutation and conjuration picking up the Transmutation ACF for selecting spells from banned schools

skydragonknight

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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2010, 10:14:33 PM »
- DM gave the hint that there'll be quite a lot 'familiar unfriendly environments'

Any divine casters? If so, then make sure they buy some scrolls of Endure Elements. If no one else as the spell available, expect your party to hate you.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

jameswilliamogle

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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2010, 10:41:14 PM »
The feat Spell Reprieve lets you learn a single spell from your forbade school.  Its in Lost Empires of Faerun, and you can take it at 1st level if you want.  For 2 more feats you can learn anything from that school.

veekie

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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2010, 02:12:28 AM »
- DM gave the hint that there'll be quite a lot 'familiar unfriendly environments'

Any divine casters? If so, then make sure they buy some scrolls of Endure Elements. If no one else as the spell available, expect your party to hate you.
Theres a cleric, I think he could take a nap and wake up with the necessary spell.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Talore

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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2010, 04:37:59 AM »
What circumstances are these, anyway, that make it a good idea to drop Abjuration? Especially when Incantatrix will be forcing you to drop yet another school?

- DM gave the hint that there'll be quite a lot 'familiar unfriendly environments'

Ask the DM to clarify. Is it like heat damage from air unfriendly or avalanche unfriendly. Because one can be mitigated, but the other caused the party Dread Necromancer to lose the imp he got that morning with improved familiar. A year and a day is a mighty long time to wait, but familiars can be better than a lot of ACFs if you're doing it right.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2010, 04:58:30 AM »
Ask the DM to clarify. Is it like heat damage from air unfriendly or avalanche unfriendly. Because one can be mitigated, but the other caused the party Dread Necromancer to lose the imp he got that morning with improved familiar. A year and a day is a mighty long time to wait, but familiars can be better than a lot of ACFs if you're doing it right.
That's when you thank the DM and buy a scroll of Animate Dead Familiar
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Hallack

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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2010, 10:10:44 AM »
No real options for Conjurers here. Transmuters have an ACF in Unearthed Arcana that lets them learn any Wizard spell as a Transmutation spell (limited number), even from a barred school, but that's all I can think of.

That's the one I was coming in the mention but as you are going Conjurer and not Transmuter...
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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2010, 10:24:45 AM »
Isn't there rules for Duel specialist somewhere. You could specialize in Transmutation and conjuration picking up the Transmutation ACF for selecting spells from banned schools
Changeling wizards have an ACF which lets them dual-specialise in transmutation and illusion.
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Re: Prohibited school: abjuration. Any way to dispel?
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2010, 10:58:51 AM »
"Let the Cleric do it".