Author Topic: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator  (Read 5918 times)

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TheChuck

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Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« on: August 24, 2010, 04:57:23 PM »
Hey guys, I'm making a 7th level character for a game I'm getting into and I wanted to see if you guys could help me with it.  The basic idea is from the Compilation of Low Level Builds and is a 6th level build there.  Found here: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1444.msg38298#msg38298

What I want to know is if I went like this instead:
1 Crusader
2 Crusader
3 Cleric
4 Swordsage
5 Swordsage
6 RKV
7 RKV

If that would still work as a pretty solid build.  I could still get Thicket of Blades, and I get Wis to AC from the second level of Swordsage.  I lose out on Zealous Surge from Crusader and a point of BAB as well though. 

Basically, is that extra Crusader level better than an extra Swordsage level?

Thanks in advance!

Rebel7284

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 05:54:58 PM »
Have you considered extra Cleric levels for better casting?
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

TheChuck

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 06:04:27 PM »
I have actually, but I kinda want a melee focused martial adept style character, who can cast some too.  Sort of a paladin without actually playing one.

Waazraath

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 06:20:06 PM »
1 Crusader
2 Crusader
3 Cleric
4 Swordsage
5 Swordsage
6 RKV
7 RKV

Mhhh... this gives at level 1, 2, 4 and 5 a level 1 stance, and at level 1, 2 and 4 access to only 1st level manouvers (initiator level for swordsage is only 2.5 at level 4). That means that only at level 5 you'll get 1 2nd level manouver, at level 7 one 3rd level manouver.... The stance you'll gain is at level 6, when IL for RKV will be only 4.5, so no thicket of blades there, so I don't see how you can get it.

I'd try to get swordsage 1 at level 5, so you can pick several lvl 2 manouvers from the 6 you'll get to know then. Crusader 3 / cleric 1 / swordsage 1 / RKV 2 for example would grant you thicket of blades at level 6 as well (if continuing the crusader IL-progression with RKV). 

Rebel7284

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2010, 06:46:36 PM »
RKV progresses initiator level.  So the RKV initiator level is Swordsage 5.5/Crusader 5.5
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

TheChuck

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2010, 06:48:43 PM »
Hnh.  Apparently I did something wrong when I was figuring that all out then.  I looked over again and you seem to be correct Waazraath.  

Well then, looks like I'm going the way it was posted in the Compilation of Low Level Builds thread.

Endarire

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2010, 01:15:31 AM »
I also read that taking Swordsage1 or Crusader1 or Warblade1 after level 1 doesn't restrict you to a level 1 stance, based on how "when you begin play" is used in other products.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

skydragonknight

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2010, 06:08:13 AM »
What I want to know is if I went like this instead:
1 Crusader
2 Crusader
3 Cleric
4 Swordsage
5 Swordsage
6 RKV
7 RKV

The name and combination of classes look so familiar. If only I could place it...
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Endarire

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2010, 06:17:34 AM »
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Havok4

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2010, 03:23:27 PM »
Which is unfortunately no longer legal due to footstep of the divine being changed in the errata.

snakeman830

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2010, 05:47:22 PM »
Which is unfortunately no longer legal due to footstep of the divine being changed in the errata.
Unless your DM allows the Book of Ultimate Feats, in which case it becomes rediculously more powerful (how would you like to calculate the speed bonus based upon centuries/level duration?)
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

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skydragonknight

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2010, 06:07:04 PM »
Chuck E. Cheese.

I was being facetious, since I'm the one who made that thread.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

TheChuck

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2010, 12:42:43 PM »
Holy crap.  I had never seen Chuck E. Cheese before.  That is some truly excellent work there skydragonknight.  I wish I had half the CO ability of some of you folks on here. 

Either way, thanks for the advice on the build.

skydragonknight

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2010, 05:35:24 PM »
And I wish I was half as good as I was back then.  :lol

So yeah, what was the low-level build progression? We'll tweak from there.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

TheChuck

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2010, 07:55:22 PM »
1 Crusader
2 Crusader
3 Crusader
4 Cleric
5 Swordsage
6 RKV
7 RKV

This gets me Thicket of Blades at 6. 

I was trying to get Improved Trip in there, but my str is only a 13 and that's not high enough to reliably trip.  I guess I could play a Goliath for Powerful Build, but I'd rather get that second level of RKV and be a Human.  Any suggestions for OP-ing tripping?  Magic items that buff it maybe?

bananaphone

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2010, 05:05:03 PM »
From what I gather, it looks like you want to control your enemies movement using Thicket of Blades and Improved Trip.
Might I suggest Stand Still instead of Improved Trip.  It is more reliable than tripping (with your strength) and it doesn't have a prerequisite feat.

Shadowhunter

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2010, 05:29:46 PM »
I hope you all realize the irony in someone called "TheChuck" accidentally making Chuck E. Cheese-lite?

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Which do you want to have and how soon?
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Phaenix

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2010, 08:37:51 PM »
I hope you all realize the irony in someone called "TheChuck" accidentally making Chuck E. Cheese-lite?

Isn't irony when the opposite of what you expect happens? I'd call this apropos.

TheChuck

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2010, 12:39:00 PM »
Ok, so the DM allowed one flaw. 

So I have EWP: Spiked Chain, Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes and Stand Still (instead of combat expertise and imp. trip.)  What else do you guys suggest?  No Forgotten Realms books are allowed or I probably would have taken Jotunbrud.  Hold the Line?  Power Attack?

I don't really know enough about maneuvers and stances to try to shoot for any one in particular, excepting Thicket of Blades and Iron Heart Surge.

Risada

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Re: Crusader/Swordsage/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2010, 01:39:27 PM »
Ok, so the DM allowed one flaw. 

So I have EWP: Spiked Chain, Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes and Stand Still (instead of combat expertise and imp. trip.)  What else do you guys suggest?  No Forgotten Realms books are allowed or I probably would have taken Jotunbrud.  Hold the Line?  Power Attack?

I don't really know enough about maneuvers and stances to try to shoot for any one in particular, excepting Thicket of Blades and Iron Heart Surge.

For the feat I suggest Power Attack.

For the maneuvers: you're a Crusader.... if you plan on picking the support role, take the Devoted Spirit's healing strikes, and possibly White Raven Tactics (if possible, before entering RKV). Stone Bones and the upgraded versions, from Stone Dragon, are nice as well.