Scrying is Ruining my game 3.5

[knightfall]

So I am running a where I was planning on doing alot of dramatic openings and big reveals, like having a master of many forms be the big bad dragon who has been terrorizing the land. One of my players is focused on Divination and he keeps seeing the big reveals much sooner than he is meant too. Sooner than would even be relevant, kind of killing my fun as a DM with the shocking reveals.

My question is: How can I counter scrying?, generally he is using a crystal ball of true seeing however he can cast it as well to up the DC. If there are any spells that give false scrys or deal damage to the scryer. I don't wanna punish him for using scrying  but I want to challenge him while he uses it

Furthermore their first encounter is with the aforementioned plot idea of the big bad dragon being a master of many forms. The problem is they went to the last place he terrorized and searched for any part of his body the could use to up the DC, his will save is 20 so I gave them a cloak with some of his blood spilled on it. That got their DC up to 26 and then they tried to scry him, he rolled a two. I just told them they saw the dragon in flight to either his home or next location, I wasn't sure. A few sessions later a different player used true seeing and said that it saw through wildshape and polymorph because it sees the "true forms" of things. I didn't know this at the time of the scry and got defensive when they said I could alter the original scry. In my head I was planning on turing him into an effigy master who built a robo dragon, but then I remembered that an effigy wouldn't have the blood of a dragon. What should I do with that big bad? I feel like I need to make him a dragon with levels but I'm hesitant to do so.

[konner09]

well you could do the multiple streams of the future that can change if such and such thing happens like  your charectors ignore a village asking for help or something like that it can change the future

[veekie]

In this case, it's possible for someone to build an effigy, but instead of oil, it pumps dragon blood inside?
The world is magic, there are ways around it all.

As for scrying, the best one is to give their enemies a scrying detector, and they proceed to act in misleading manners when they sense incoming. Alternatively, have them drop false bait, you can't scry on an enemy if the blood that was there was a vial of prepared misdirection.
True Seeing does pierce illusions, but it's not impossible to mislead without illusions and polymorphs, mundane disguises work just fine for one, and the scrying window is of limited radius, so you can have staged backgrounds. Finally, if you have a pressing need to hide, make a lot of use of eversmoking bottles and blindsight/sense(if you're using a classed dragon it'd have the former)

[knightfall]

In this case, it's possible for someone to build an effigy, but instead of oil, it pumps dragon blood inside?
The world is magic, there are ways around it all.

The thing is they determined it was dragons blood by taste. So I can't very well claim it WAS an effigy unless I give it blood vats filled with the blood of actual dragons. but the seems contrived

[veekie]

Well, yes, but you could basically run an effigy with dragon blood based hydraulics, it's hardly contrived, you want a mecha dragon, what better magic reagent than dragon bone for the core skeletal structure, dragon blood for the hydraulics and dragonhide for the plating.

[knightfall]

All right, I'll try it. Thanks a lot for the advice

[The_Mad_Linguist]

There's also a ton of misdirection spells/items available.  You could try to give them a different dragon every time they scry using the blood.

[ShadowViper]

Mindblank is a great 8th level. The only problem is, that it's an 8th level spell heh. So it will not be available at the lower levels. But it's great for defeating divinations(like true seeing) and enchantments.

[BruceLeeroy]

The blood of a completely different dragon placed there as a distraction?

[MilwaukeeJoe]

My question is: How can I counter scrying?, generally he is using a crystal ball of true seeing however he can cast it as well to up the DC. If there are any spells that give false scrys or deal damage to the scryer. I don't wanna punish him for using scrying  but I want to challenge him while he uses it.

My advice - make up your own anti-scrying spells. Nothing too crazy, but perhaps one that dishes out damage to the scryer and forces concentration checks to keep up the attempt. Think about what the PCs current concentration skill is, figure out how much damage you'd need to roll to give him a moderately difficult roll.

Perhaps some anti-scrying spells turns the scry into a two-way thing? I remember an example, 1st edition... we were scrying on the enemy wizard, when all of a sudden the wizard look AT US. Combat started to ensue, right through the scry. Did this make exact sense with the rules of the spell? Nah. Was it a cool scene at the time? Hell yes.

Basically, go with the Rule of Cool.

And don't underestimate the abilities of lead (the metal). I usually rule that things nearby a great quantity of lead are naturally shielded from scrying magic. It's the ol' star trek, "can't get readings through the ionized atmosphere, blah, blah, blah" trick.

MilwaukeeJoe

[veekie]

Perhaps some anti-scrying spells turns the scry into a two-way thing? I remember an example, 1st edition... we were scrying on the enemy wizard, when all of a sudden the wizard look AT US. Combat started to ensue, right through the scry. Did this make exact sense with the rules of the spell? Nah. Was it a cool scene at the time? Hell yes.

Man that'd be an awesome way to do this. Turn the scrying window into a portal window and then everyone was hurling spells.

[archangel.arcanis]

The first time the bad guy notices the scrying sensor he takes note and begins back tracing it to find them. Once he does he waits until he has a good opportunity and shows up and casts shatter, or sends a minion to do so. The Crystal ball has to make a fort save or be destroyed. I would try and compensate the player since that is a lot of cash they will be loosing though.

[MilwaukeeJoe]

The first time the bad guy notices the scrying sensor he takes note and begins back tracing it to find them. Once he does he waits until he has a good opportunity and shows up and casts shatter, or sends a minion to do so. The Crystal ball has to make a fort save or be destroyed. I would try and compensate the player since that is a lot of cash they will be loosing though.

Or perhaps Save vs Disabled. The crystal ball is not destroyed, but perhaps disabled for a period of time.

MilwaukeeJoe

[The_Mad_Linguist]

So basically this:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Hallack]

Keep the Fix Simple: On the dragon scrying goof.  Keep it simple.  It WAS a dragon they scried.  Just have the Dragon be a minion, agent, or distraction of the Master of Many Forms.  No need to back track what they know.  You would just need to rework a small bit of your plot to accommodate.

[PhaedrusXY]

I remember a spell or magic item that would damage a would-be scryer. If I can remember exactly what it was, I'll post it here. I know it was 3.5, though, and either a psionic power or item from the Magic Item Compendium...

Edit: AHA! I was wrong about the source, but this is an item listed in Bunko's.

Deathglance Locket (Dragon Compendium 134, 3,860gp)  If you are being scryed on, you can hit the pesky voyeur for 10d6 damage 1/day

The Scry Shroud in the MiC also gives you a +5 on your saves against Divinations, and if you detect a scrying sensor you can turn invisible for 10 rounds as an immediate action. It's fairly cheap at 4000 gp. If you somehow have Scry at will you could use it to trigger this for Invisibility at will, also... 

[veekie]

^^
They have a True Seeing ball, which puts paid to invisibility.

[RedHarvest]

There's also a ton of misdirection spells/items available.  You could try to give them a different dragon every time they scry using the blood.

True Seeing does not see through mundane disguises. While I hate to consider what such a thing might look like, a dragon with ranks in Disguise and a quality disguise kit might be able to fool the PCs into thinking it was a different dragon, or a different kind of dragon altogether. If the dragon knows it's being scryed upon, it might take certain steps to confound the diviner. If it's instead a Master of Many Forms, it has disguise as a class skill. If Clark Kent can separate himself from Superman with a pair of horn rimmed glasses, surely a Big Bad can do something more impressive. If the PCs see a Blue Dragon the first time, and a Silver Dragon the second, and a Copper Dragon the third, they might think that either the dragon blood on the cloak is a diversion, or that their crystal ball is faulty.

As far as scrying "ruining" your game, I like the previous suggestion of a "Trousers of Time" style divination, put forth here:

well you could do the multiple streams of the future that can change if such and such thing happens like  your characters ignore a village asking for help or something like that it can change the future

So if they try to see the future, they see only one possible future, and can take steps to make it come to pass or to change it. Or, they see one part of the larger picture. Take an opportune moment out of context. If all they can see in connection to the Big Bad is an NPC screaming "You'll never get away with this!" -- well, how useful is that? If all else fails, just have the Big Bad run the show from a distance while on a tropical beach.

IMHO, the whole construct thread is much more complicated and irritating than simply making the dragon a lackey or partner. Granted, a dragon-shaped flying machine with hydraulic breath weapon and ritual-based magic all bundled up inside would be a kickass and truly scary thing, but what if the big bad were simply riding the dragon?

Just thoughts. Take what you want.
-Red

[Bryan_0697]

[Sinfire Titan]

There's a Soulmeld in Magic of Incarnum which gives it's shaper Spell Resistance against Divination effects. You can use that in conjunction with Dazzig's Vest (DMG2) and Boost Spell Resistance (BoVD, a variant is in BoED) to make it very difficult to Scry the villain.