Author Topic: [PATHFINDER] Sneak Attack and Spells  (Read 8151 times)

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Endarire

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[PATHFINDER] Sneak Attack and Spells
« on: August 13, 2010, 04:21:42 AM »
I know I can sneak attack with spells requiring an accuracy roll, but what sort of damage does Sneak Attack do with a scorching ray? An enervation?

What about with cure light wounds?  Can I heal someone more by being a flank-happy Cleric/Rogue?
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vrischika111

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Sneak Attack and Spells
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2010, 06:24:43 AM »
same as the spell if energy-damaging spell.
Negative damage if carac/level-draining spell.

no you can't heal more, but you can hurt undead more.
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RobbyPants

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Sneak Attack and Spells
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2010, 10:02:36 AM »
The scorching ray one seems obvious: fire damage.  The other two are odd.  I honestly don't know what the RAW explanation is, but I also don't hugely care.

There's no way I'd let Sneak Attack damage add to levels drained or anything, but I could see applying it as extra negative energy damage as Vrischika suggested.

As for the healing, I'm not sure if I care if you use it to heal extra HP.  It seems a little weird and unorthadox, but I don't think it'd break the game any.  I can see the argument for healing more HP if you target the right spot.  I mean, you burn someone worse if you target the right spot, and no one complains about that.  Plus, your ally could deliberately drop their Dex bonus to AC, so you wouldn't have to actually flank them.

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Edit:  I just now saw the PF tag.  Maybe none of what I said is even apt. ;)
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SorO_Lost

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Sneak Attack and Spells
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2010, 11:02:09 AM »
I think vrischika111's answer is true to D&D as well.
Energy Drain defaults to negative energy when SA is involved, dunno source.
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[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
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vrischika111

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Sneak Attack and Spells
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2010, 11:49:10 AM »
Quote from: Complete Arcane, P86.

and I'd confirm that healing is not an attack, so to sneak attack.
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veekie

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Sneak Attack and Spells
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2010, 01:24:18 PM »
It'd be thematically interesting to make it work though.
It makes IC sense and mechanically is safe enough. If you're wary of the concept, perhaps make it so that the recipient allowing the level of precision needed makes him flatfooted for the round.
Plus allowing healers to heal more out of combat(Cure Light Wounds Coup de Grace!), would make the Cures more competitive with the Vigors.
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RobbyPants

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Sneak Attack and Spells
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2010, 03:20:15 PM »
It'd be thematically interesting to make it work though.
It makes IC sense and mechanically is safe enough. If you're wary of the concept, perhaps make it so that the recipient allowing the level of precision needed makes him flatfooted for the round.
Plus allowing healers to heal more out of combat(Cure Light Wounds Coup de Grace!), would make the Cures more competitive with the Vigors.
It seems just allowing it would actually encourage in-combat healing.  A rogue with a wand would be the best in-combat healer until about 11th level.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

fuinjutsu

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Sneak Attack and Spells
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2010, 07:08:35 PM »
RAW, you cannot boost healing with damage bonuses,  they heal for 1d8+5 (CLW) and take 2d6 (3rd level rogue) positive energy damage.

All draining spells you SA with deal negative Energy Damage.
Eh, the wizard have more money than them combined, he could in theory just use all his money on a fleet of trained attack mules, but then we aren't playing 3.5 but zergling rushing in Starcraft instead.

Vistella

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Sneak Attack and Spells
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2010, 07:14:00 PM »
RAW, you cannot boost healing with damage bonuses,  they heal for 1d8+5 (CLW) and take 2d6 (3rd level rogue) positive energy damage.

All draining spells you SA with deal negative Energy Damage.
though positive energy damage heals living creatures so its a boost to healing technically
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 07:21:31 PM by Vistella »

Rymosrac

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Sneak Attack and Spells
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2010, 07:15:45 PM »
positive energy damage heals living creatures

ftfy

Also, are we really sure about that part?
Shh. My common sense is tingling. . .

Vistella

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Sneak Attack and Spells
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2010, 07:23:56 PM »
positive energy damage heals living creatures

ftfy

Also, are we really sure about that part?
thanks for the fix

well, positive energy heals living and hurts undead while negative energy heals undead and hurts living

it even says so in the description of CLW^^
Quote
When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 1d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +5).

Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

Rymosrac

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Sneak Attack and Spells
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2010, 07:27:51 PM »
That's kind of the question.

We've got general ruling that negative energy "damage" always heals undead, and that positive energy "healing" always damages undead. What I can't seem to find is a general rule stating that positive energy "damage" always heals living. Just seems like I remember seeing a positive energy effect somewhere that damaged people. Besides, y'know, being exploded by awesomeness overload while on the positive energy plane.
Shh. My common sense is tingling. . .

Vistella

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Sneak Attack and Spells
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2010, 07:30:20 PM »
is it really positive "healing"?
or is it just positive "damage"?

and considering that inflict wounds says that the undeads get healed by the negative damage, it wouldnt be too wrong to say living get healed by positive damage

SorO_Lost

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Sneak Attack and Spells
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2010, 11:34:06 PM »
fyi: The Positive Energy plane can kill you using Fast Healing.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]