Author Topic: Why?  (Read 4510 times)

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Amechra

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Why?
« on: August 10, 2010, 12:38:47 AM »
I've always wondered why Vinestrike, Gravestrike, and that one spell that let's you SA constructs aren't on the Assassin spell list.

I mean, why do wizards who can't SA naturally, and need a feat to get a spell that let's them SA get it, but the Assassin does not?
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

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Solo

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Re: Why?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2010, 12:42:52 AM »
Because Wizards is an idiot.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Ikeren

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Re: Why?
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2010, 01:08:47 AM »
Because there are lots of ways to gain spells that aren't traditionally on your list or abilities that aren't traditionally a part of your class?

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Why?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2010, 01:18:19 AM »
Because Wizards is an idiot.
This. Although it's only a DC 20 check to activate a wand, and wands use the same action as the spell they contain to cast. So that's certainly a viable option, especially if you stick them in wand chambers on your weapon(s) and/or shield.
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Kuroimaken

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Re: Why?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2010, 01:21:43 AM »
Because that's what houserules are for?
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Amechra

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Re: Why?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2010, 01:24:28 AM »
I'm just wondering, because I'm thinking about planning to make an Assassin's Handbook, unless there already is one. I also think they should get Hunter's Eye (you know, SA dice =1/3 CL? That's not overpowered for someone who's normal CL caps at 10. And it would be useful and flavorful. Grumble.)

The fact that the ranger get's such nice things (Hunter's Mercy, Hunter's Eye, and the like) makes me believe that our friendly neighborhood rangers are actually bounty hunters, trained to track down and kill pretty much anything.

I knew there was a reason for Favored Enemy...
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

weenog

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Re: Why?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2010, 01:27:01 AM »
Rangers are half casters.  They get nice things because they're not supposed to be able to use them competently.
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Saxony

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Re: Why?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2010, 02:54:24 AM »
Assassin is a prestige class in the DMG that isn't for full spellcasters.

It doesn't get nice things. It especially doesn't get nice spells.

As for why Wizards get sneak attack spells... No idea. Someone was smoking recreational drugs.
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Amechra

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Re: Why?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2010, 03:02:29 AM »
Knew it!

But isn't Assassin the only class that can Death Attack with no delay through that 4th level spell?

I think it's in CArc.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Saxony

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Re: Why?
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2010, 03:23:32 AM »
Knew it!

But isn't Assassin the only class that can Death Attack with no delay through that 4th level spell?

I think it's in CArc.
Death Sight from Complete Mage, yes.

Don't expect Dungeons and Dragons' consistency to remain constant.

Because that would be consistent :P
If I say something about real world physics, and someone disagrees, assume I am right 90% of the time. This number goes up to 100% if I am late night posting - trust me, my star dust sibs.

Amechra

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Re: Why?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2010, 03:27:54 AM »
Heh, my Assassin is taking that next level.

Since she'll be 12th level, what do you think of Extra Spell (Hunter's Eye)? Thanks to Practiced Spellcaster, Next level she'll have a CL of 11, so that would mean +3d6 SA damage, for a total of 10d6 (or 11d6 against undead)

Nice.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Why?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2010, 05:06:24 AM »
Same reason that spellthieves don't get it.
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PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Why?
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2010, 05:20:26 AM »
Same reason that spellthieves don't get it.
Because anything mildly anti-caster must be mechanically deficient? Wait...
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Epoch16

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Re: Why?
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2010, 08:56:13 PM »
Since she'll be 12th level, what do you think of Extra Spell (Hunter's Eye)? Thanks to Practiced Spellcaster, Next level she'll have a CL of 11, so that would mean +3d6 SA damage, for a total of 10d6 (or 11d6 against undead)

Why don't you just take Telling Blow feat from PHB2, and get a rapier/kukri/other with keen on it? Telling blow says that you deal SA on a crit. . .and with a high enough crit range. . .well you get the idea.

Honestly, there doesn't seem to be a reason to go through such hoops for a few extra d6's (unless of course I am missing something.)

weenog

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Re: Why?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2010, 10:01:43 PM »
Since she'll be 12th level, what do you think of Extra Spell (Hunter's Eye)? Thanks to Practiced Spellcaster, Next level she'll have a CL of 11, so that would mean +3d6 SA damage, for a total of 10d6 (or 11d6 against undead)

Why don't you just take Telling Blow feat from PHB2, and get a rapier/kukri/other with keen on it? Telling blow says that you deal SA on a crit. . .and with a high enough crit range. . .well you get the idea.

Honestly, there doesn't seem to be a reason to go through such hoops for a few extra d6's (unless of course I am missing something.)
You don't crit with every single attack.  You can be TWFing and flanking or attacking a target denied its Dex bonus with every single attack.  Sneak Attack applies to every attack which meets the conditions needed to trigger it.
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JaronK

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Re: Why?
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2010, 10:30:55 PM »
It's to give Factotums yet one more thing to lord above Rogues/Assassins/Spelltheives.  "We don't even want our sneak attack but we do it better than you!"

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Epoch16

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Re: Why?
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2010, 11:04:09 PM »
Quote
You don't crit with every single attack.  You can be TWFing and flanking or attacking a target denied its Dex bonus with every single attack.  Sneak Attack applies to every attack which meets the conditions needed to trigger it.


I think we are saying the same thing. At least what you said is what I was implying. Whereas its true that every normal attack wouldnt be a SA, if you were flanking something (and were dual-wielding kukri's) then they would be SA's. And then if any of those kukri's hit their threat range, the damage could be nothing less than impressive.  

IDK, perhaps I was unclear. . ./shrug.

Maat_Mons

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Re: Why?
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2010, 11:35:50 PM »
Errata:

Quote

Amechra

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Re: Why?
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2010, 03:15:58 AM »
Heh, my current Assassin is fixing that with a couple of levels of Unseen Seer to use Advanced Learning to get Hunter's Eye.

+7d6 SA by 20th level, which totals 19d6 SA in general, is just nice.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Why?
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2010, 03:25:35 AM »
It's to give Factotums yet one more thing to lord above Rogues/Assassins/Spelltheives.  "We don't even want our sneak attack but we do it better than you!"

JaronK

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