Author Topic: Abjurant Champion Build  (Read 8221 times)

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Goodlad

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Abjurant Champion Build
« on: August 06, 2010, 08:00:20 PM »
Hey everyone,

Im just looking for some advice on making an abjurant champion.

My main character is a Cloistered Cleric/Prestige paladin of tyranny/warblade/ruby knight.

The abjurant champion is my cohort from leadership. I like the idea of me being a melee divine caster and my cohort being a melee arcane caster.

From what im reading a nice mix would be abjurant champ + runesmith. Then i can just wear fullplate with no hassle.
And then use Eldritch Knight as filler if needed.

What im having a hard time deciding the mix of each class.

Abjurant champion needs:

BA +5
Combat Casting
Ability to cast 1st level arcane.

Rune Smith needs:

COncentration 5 ranks
Craft Stone working 8 ranks
Scribe scroll
Armor Prof Heavy
Ability to cast 1st level arcane.

We use flaws in the game so i was thinking i could just use one of the 3 flaws im gonna take to get Armor Prof Heavy.
Alternatively i can just take a fighter level.

I would prefer to lose as lottle caster levels possible but still not wait too long to get into the prestige classes.
Its gonna be 6th at earliest because of the BA 5 for Ardent champ, or if i got runesmith first its still level 5 because of the 8 ranks needed in craft.

SO what mix of levels do you guys think will work best?

Fighter 1 (BA 1), wizard 6  (BA 3) , runesmith 1  (BA 1), then ardent champ.

Or possible this build?

Fighter 1  (BA 1), Battle Sorcerer 4 (BA 3) , runesmith 1  (BA 1), then ardent champ


Or is there ways i just havent come across that you guys can recommend?

juton

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Re: Abjurant Champion Build
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2010, 08:12:29 PM »
You want Wizard over Sorcerer for a cohort, you'll rely less on this character than your main one, but it should be a versatile as possible, that's where a wizard comes in.

I think a standard approach can be satisfactory (assuming you are using the fractional BAB rule from UA): Fighter 1/Wizard 4/Runesmith 1/Wizard +1/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/??? 7

You can go Eldritch Knight for the last 7 levels, but it's not that great a class, at this point taking 7 more levels of Wizard or Initiate of the Seven Veils works just about as well. If you want something really fun you can try the Swiftblade PrC, it's really good for fighter/mages, you can find it here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327

Goodlad

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Re: Abjurant Champion Build
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2010, 08:20:07 PM »
That build looks nice, the only reason i was considering the battle sorcerer is bacause it gets me into tings 2 levels earlier.
What and where in UA is the fractional BA rule?  

Going initaite for the last levels is a great idea. I was actually thinking of making a initaite or a melee caster and decided on the melee.
Would be awesome to combine both! :-D

EDIT. just wondering why i would bother with the spellsword dip? 
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 08:22:03 PM by Goodlad »

Sohala

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Re: Abjurant Champion Build
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2010, 08:24:40 PM »
Crusader instead of fighter and follow up with jade phoenix mage.

Wizard 4/Crusader 1/Runesmith 1/JPM 1/AC 5/JPM +8
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juton

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Re: Abjurant Champion Build
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2010, 08:35:15 PM »
That build looks nice, the only reason i was considering the battle sorcerer is bacause it gets me into tings 2 levels earlier.
What and where in UA is the fractional BA rule? 

Going initaite for the last levels is a great idea. I was actually thinking of making a initaite or a melee caster and decided on the melee.
Would be awesome to combine both! :-D

EDIT. just wondering why i would bother with the spellsword dip? 

UA stands for Unearthed Arcana, the Fractional BAB rule means that taking 5 levels of wizard (2.5 BAB) and 1 of runecaster (.5 BAB) adds up to 3, not 2 like it normally would. The Spellsword Dip gives +1 BAB and spellcasting, and you already have all the Pre-reqs for it.

The problem with the Battle Sorcerer is that it loses too many spells known. It would only hasten your entry into Abjurant Champion by one level so it really isn't worth it.

Crusader/Jade Phoenix Mage is good, especially if you want more fighter than mage but if it's your cohort then it's going to be behind at least 2 caster levels anyways, so a cohort needs to specialize a bit more if they are going to be relevant in combat.

Goodlad

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Re: Abjurant Champion Build
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2010, 08:39:31 PM »
I read through Jade Phoenix Mage, its pretty damn nice alright.
Though i think im missing something, why crusader?  Warblade seems to also hit the martial manouver and stance requirement.

I know what you mean about the cohort being behind so needs to specialize more.
Though i think i would be ok with that. My main char is the only optimized character in the entire party, hell even my cohort will be better built than the other chars, lol

juton

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Re: Abjurant Champion Build
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2010, 08:56:34 PM »
The crusader is nice because you never run out maneuvers, and it gives an arcanist a little bit of healing, which is nice. Tome of Battle gives people the impression that it is over powered, but it isn't really, if you already the most optimized character check with your group that it won't ruffle any feathers.

Sohala

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Re: Abjurant Champion Build
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2010, 09:02:21 PM »
I read through Jade Phoenix Mage, its pretty damn nice alright.
Though i think im missing something, why crusader?  Warblade seems to also hit the martial manouver and stance requirement.
Heavy armor prof.
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Goodlad

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Re: Abjurant Champion Build
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2010, 09:05:49 PM »
In a way the warblade won't run out either since a swift action gets them back.
A warblade also knows less manoeuvres but I think he gets access to more relevant ones for the char. Heavy hitting ones.

Cheers for the advice so far lads :-)

Edit: I don't mind using one of my 3 flaw feats for heavy armour prof.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 09:07:27 PM by Goodlad »

Sohala

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Re: Abjurant Champion Build
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2010, 09:09:55 PM »
Compare warblade's 2nd level (and lower) maneuvers to crusader's 2nd level (and lower) maneuvers, they are all that matter for this character.
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Goodlad

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Re: Abjurant Champion Build
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2010, 09:21:20 PM »
Will do, can look over then in a while.
Either warblade or crusader will work so the build is pretty much sorted.

Gonna have to be a dwarf because the rune smith dip, will have to look up dwarf options.

Also, do you guys know any templates that will work with this?
My main char is feral but the minus 4 int would make me not also make te cohort feral. We use the buy off system for ecl, but if a cohort is buying off then the main char can drop the relevant amount of xp instead of the cohort.

dark_samuari

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Re: Abjurant Champion Build
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2010, 10:10:41 PM »
Will do, can look over then in a while.
Either warblade or crusader will work so the build is pretty much sorted.

Gonna have to be a dwarf because the rune smith dip, will have to look up dwarf options.

If you are decided on going towards rune smith than Crusader is the much better choice (as it actually gets heavy armor proficiency).

Also, do you guys know any templates that will work with this?
My main char is feral but the minus 4 int would make me not also make te cohort feral. We use the buy off system for ecl, but if a cohort is buying off then the main char can drop the relevant amount of xp instead of the cohort.

What level are you starting this character off at, in regards to L.A. buy-off?

Goodlad

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Re: Abjurant Champion Build
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2010, 05:38:25 AM »
I looked over warblade and crusader again, ive decided to go warblade.
Sure i have to spend a flaw feat on heavy armor prof, but Battle CLarify is just great for this build i think. +Int modifier to reflex saves.

Ive to make te cohort at 6th level, although, i would prefer to only give him a +1 LA race or template.
I dont wanna buy off anything higher as i dont wanna blow that much XP on my main char.

Soda

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Re: Abjurant Champion Build
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2010, 05:51:40 AM »
I looked over warblade and crusader again, ive decided to go warblade.
Sure i have to spend a flaw feat on heavy armor prof, but Battle CLarify is just great for this build i think. +Int modifier to reflex saves.
To a maximum of your warblade level.  :/

Weezel

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Re: Abjurant Champion Build
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2010, 05:59:52 AM »
Mineral Warrior (+1 la)    4 con, 2 str, -2 int/wis/cha, DR8/adamantine, 3 natural amour, burrow speed
Arctic (+0 la) 2 con, -2 cha
also if you can take the "water" variant from UA that will get you another +2 to con

I think it's worth the hit to int to get massive DR and con bonuses which will be handy since your cohort is a lower level than the party.   :D

Goodlad

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Re: Abjurant Champion Build
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2010, 06:02:50 AM »
I looked over warblade and crusader again, ive decided to go warblade.
Sure i have to spend a flaw feat on heavy armor prof, but Battle CLarify is just great for this build i think. +Int modifier to reflex saves.
To a maximum of your warblade level.  :/

Thats a poxy restriction! lol .. Sure i will decide on warblade/crusader in a while. The randomness of the crusader abilities puts me off though.
Getting 1 random manouver a round granted is terrible i think, especially since ive never had a fight go on for more than 4 - 5 rounds.

Looking over races, the Dream dwarf is nice! Especially the Dreamsight.. Seeing Ethereal creatures is nice.
No LA on te race though so im still hunting for a template thats +1 just caus i can.


The mineral Warrior looks awesome! I will look it up now and also the Water Variant.