Author Topic: [4E] Summoning Magic  (Read 2719 times)

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Commx

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[4E] Summoning Magic
« on: June 28, 2008, 08:18:09 AM »
Wizards gave us Illusions, but we still don't have any Summoners. So I tried to do something about it by attempting to change the Summon Monster line to 4E. I'm quite happy with the result although I do think some balancing will be required with the higher level Powers. So far, I've only play-tested Summon Monster I, and it works quite good. The Minion is somewhat more powerful than the effects of other Encounter spells, but the Wizard has to give up his valuable Standard actions to use it as anything other than a roadblock.

Revised Rules are in post 5.

[spoiler]
Summoning Power Type:
A Summoning Power brings one or more additional creatures into the fight. Summons are completely controlled by the character or creature that brought them into existence and act directly after it in the Initiative order. The same character or creature can only have one Summoning Power in effect at the same time. If it uses a second one before the first has run out, the creatures created by the first one immediately wink out of existence.

Summon Monster I

Wizard Attack 1
You summon a minor creature to keep your enemies at bay.
Summon Monster II

Wizard Attack 7
You summon a pair of minor creatures to keep your enemies at bay.
Summon Monster III

Wizard Attack 13
You summon a moderately powerful creature to fight your enemies for you.
Summon Monster IV

Wizard Attack 17
You summon a pair of moderately powerful creatures to fight your enemies for you.
Summon Monster V

Wizard Attack 23
You conjure a strong creature to destroy your enemies.
Summon Monster VI

Wizard Attack 27
You conjure several strong creatures to destroy your enemies.
Gate

Wizard Attack 23
You call forth a creature of great power to do your bidding.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2008, 06:01:04 AM by Commx »

Feyd

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Re: [4E] Summoning Magic
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2008, 02:40:02 PM »
Have you playtested this yet?  How did it go?

Commx

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Re: [4E] Summoning Magic
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2008, 05:59:02 PM »
Have you playtested this yet?  How did it go?

Quote from: My first post
So far, I've only play-tested Summon Monster I, and it works quite good. The Minion is somewhat more powerful than the effects of other Encounter spells, but the Wizard has to give up his valuable Standard actions to use it as anything other than a roadblock.

The main advantage is that even if it only takes one hit to kill, that is one hit the Wizard or the party isn't taking. The offensive capabilities aren't exactly spectacular, so it is more of a battlefield control (having another creature that takes up space, can make attacks of opportunity and help with flanking and the such) than a way of dealing more damage. This will probably be different with the higher Summon Monster spells where the Wizard can summon creatures that can actually take a few hits before dying and have their own abilities to use.

Runestar

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Re: [4E] Summoning Magic
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2008, 01:40:33 AM »
What are your thoughts on running summons like flaming sphere? You spend a minor action to sustain it, a standard action to have it attack, and a move action to direct it. This way, you don't run into problems with getting more actions than you ought to. In a way, you are effectively trading your wizard for whatever monster you summon for the duration of the battle.

This could make it easier to balance? The sort of monster you can summon would be roughly equivalent in power to a PC of that lv?
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Commx

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Re: [4E] Summoning Magic
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2008, 06:00:25 AM »
Flaming Sphere is actually a good comparison, although using the actions on a one for one basis from one through thirty doesn't seem right to me. It would have the advantage of being able to summon 'real' creatures at all levels instead of having to summon Minions or Half HP creatures.

Now I think about it again, this method is probably superior, so here is the revised version of the Summon Monster line, and the Summoning Power Type. (As 4 Minions are seen as equal to one monster from the challenge side of view, I am assuming that having the Wizard trade his actions for those of more than one Minion is also not unbalancing.) I've added in the progression which allows the creature to take actions without the Wizard sacrificing his own to show his control becoming more powerful at higher levels, and because I felt that a higher level version of the Power should do more than simply give a higher level creature.


Summoning Power Type:

A Summoning Power brings one or more additional creatures into the fight. Summons are completely controlled by the character or creature that brought them into existence and act directly after it in the Initiative order. The same character or creature can only have one Summoning Power in effect at the same time. If it uses a second one before the first has run out, the creatures created by the first one immediately wink out of existence. For a Summoned creature to take actions, its Controller must use up the type of action it wants the creature to take to direct it. (Ie. If a Wizard wants his Summon to make a Basic Attack, he must spend his own Standard action directing it.) When a Summoning Power creates more than one creature, the Controller needs to spend only one action to make all the creatures perform that action.

[spoiler]
Summon Monster I
Wizard Attack 1
You summon a minor creature to keep your enemies at bay.
Encounter * Arcane, Summoning
Standard Action    Ranged 5
Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or three, whichever is lower. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain.


Summon Monster I
Wizard Attack 1
You summon a minor creature to keep your enemies at bay.

Encounter * Arcane, Summoning
Standard Action    Ranged 5
Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or three, whichever is lower. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain.

Summon Monster II
Wizard Attack 3
You summon a minor creature to keep your enemies at bay.

Encounter * Arcane, Summoning
Standard Action    Ranged 5
Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or seven, whichever is lower. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain. This creature may take a single Minor action each round without the Wizard giving up his own.

Summon Monster III
Wizard Attack 7
You summon a minor creature to keep your enemies at bay.

Encounter * Arcane, Summoning
Standard Action    Ranged 5
Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or twelve, whichever is lower. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain. This creature may take a single Minor action each round without the Wizard giving up his own. Alternatively, you summon 1d3 Minions of the same level.

Summon Monster IV

Wizard Attack 13
You summon a moderately powerful creature to fight your enemies for you.

Encounter * Arcane, Summoning
Standard Action    Ranged 10
Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or sixteen, whichever is lower. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain. This creature may take a single Move action each round without the Wizard giving up his own. Alternatively, you summon 1d3+1 Minions of the same level. These can each take a single Minor action each turn without the Wizard giving up his own.

Summon Monster V

Wizard Attack 17
You summon a moderately powerful creature to fight your enemies for you.

Encounter * Arcane, Summoning
Standard Action    Ranged 10
Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or twenty-two, whichever is lower. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain. Alternatively, you summon 1d3+1 Minions of the same level. All creatures summoned by this spell can each take a single Move action each turn without the Wizard giving up his own.

Summon Monster VI

Wizard Attack 23
You conjure a strong creature to destroy your enemies.

Encounter * Arcane, Summoning
Standard Action    Ranged 15
Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or twenty-six, whichever is lower. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain. This creature may take a single Standard action each round without the Wizard giving up his own. Alternatively, you summon 1d3+1 Minions of the same level. These can each take a single Move action each turn without the Wizard giving up his own.

Summon Monster VII

Wizard Attack 27
You conjure several strong creatures to destroy your enemies.

Encounter * Arcane, Summoning
Standard Action    Ranged 15
Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or thirty, whichever is lower. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain. Alternatively, you summon 1d4+1 Minions of the same level. All creatures summoned by this spell can each take a single Standard action each turn without the Wizard giving up his own.
[/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: [4E] Summoning Magic
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2008, 05:38:57 PM »

Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or three, whichever is lower. <snip>
Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or seven, whichever is lower. <snip>
Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or twelve, whichever is lower. <snip>
Too much scaling, it should be a fixed rate.
Have you considered using sustain standard for simplicity?

Good job so far, but it don't suck enough to be called 4E.

Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Commx

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Re: [4E] Summoning Magic
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2008, 07:16:37 PM »
The 'scaling' is there to match the Power Progression. Basically, you have to take the Summon Monster Power each time you get a new Encounter Power, or your Summons will be weaker than the monsters you will be fighting. I could make it a fixed rate, but that would become a bit odd.

Sustain Standard was something I considered for a moment, but it would mean even more clauses in the Summoning Power Type to avoid the Wizard summoning a creature then legging it. (A bit like the original Paladin Mark issue.)


Err... thanks I suppose?

EjoThims

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Re: [4E] Summoning Magic
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2008, 10:30:09 PM »
Very nice, though the open-ended-ness of the creature summoned could become a problem over time with new books.

Also, for the higher level summons, what if the wizard does still give up his standard actions.

Does the creature (or creatures) then get to make two?