Author Topic: CO Diary: Wizard trapped in the mists...  (Read 6713 times)

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Risada

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CO Diary: Wizard trapped in the mists...
« on: June 27, 2008, 08:01:00 PM »
Diary starts here.

Build I'm looking at is here.

Kuroimaken

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2008, 08:25:14 PM »
I'm not particularly familiar with Ravenloft either (other than the fact it's really undead and evil heavy), but in my experience, Clerics don't make as good controllers as Wizards do. They have their spot, true, but their greatest offensive capabilities against undead is really based off turning; the best battlefield control spells are on the Wizard's bag.

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Straw_Man

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2008, 08:33:40 AM »

Beguiler might not be your best bet, their notoriously weak against the undead, and whats Ravenloft famous for?

May I suggest Dread Necromancer instead? Your spell selection is weak, but an arcane class with rebuke undead is too sweet to pass up in Ravenloft. You'd be more MAD though.
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

Tshern

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2008, 08:37:20 AM »
Rebuking doesn't help him too much if he has a single level of Dread Necro...

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Omen of Peace

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2008, 10:04:39 AM »
The Beguiler will be the secondary spellcasting anyway, so it's fine: illusions work well against undead (especially mindless) or to buff the party. Also, Song of the Dead (Dragon Compendium) is a +1 metamagic feat that transforms mind-affecting spells into Necromancy spells that work on intelligent undead.

Disintegrate works extremely well against solo undead. Maximize Spell + Residual Magic (CM) will provide you with some blasting alternative (orbs).

Also consider Illumian with the Krau sigil for the race - it will let you lose one less level of wizard spellcasting.

Which level do you start at ?
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Eldariel

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2008, 10:55:17 AM »
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 11:08:06 AM by Eldariel »

Risada

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2008, 01:17:13 PM »
Thanks for the replies...

@Straw_Man: I was seriously tempted to go with Dread Necro, but the rrebuking would be weak.... I also thought in Sacred Exorcist...

@Omen of Peace: thanks for the tips....starting level 1  :wall

@Eldariel: I don't know if the DM would allow Nar Demonbinder to qualify for UM.... he might think it's too gamebreaking (he took half an hour to understand how Augmented Casting works.... and he said Chameleon is uber powerful - it's his first time DM'ing as well). I will show him and see what happens...

EDIT: in case of going the Nar Demonbinder route, here's the build:

Illumian Wizard 7/Nar Demonbinder 1/UM 10/Archmage 2 (UA Conjurer Variant, Abrupt Jaunt, Spontaneous Divination)
Progression: Wiz 7/Nar 1/UM 6/AM 1/UM +3/AM+1/UM+1

*planning to grab Iron will through the magical location, as well as another metamagic through Metamagic Storm

Sigils: Naen, Krau
STR 10 DEX 14 CON 16 INT 18 WIS 14 CHA 18
1: Augmented Summoning, Spell Focus (Conjuration)
3: Improved Sigil (Krau)
6: Extend Spell
9: Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
12: Spell Focus (?)
13: Chain Spell
15: Quicken Spell
18: Heighten Spell,Persist Spell?
Grabbing Mastery of Shaping and Spell-like Ability with AM

-Schools to ban? Enchantment and what else?
-what should I pick as the other Spell Focus? Necromancy?
-my last two feats?

Feyd

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2008, 02:50:14 PM »
Nar Demonbinder works good with UM - but note you can't go to level 10 with UM then (or at least - you get no ND spellcasting with it)

You could always go with sorcerer...

Risada

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2008, 02:54:27 PM »
Nar Demonbinder works good with UM - but note you can't go to level 10 with UM then (or at least - you get no ND spellcasting with it)

You could always go with sorcerer...

I'm fine without anymore advancement in Nar Demonbinder. I want to go all the way to UM 10 so I can use Augmented Casting to its max.

Eldariel

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2008, 03:15:14 PM »
As you should. Nar Demonbinder gets the most spells out of any class you could combo with Wizard in Nar Demonbinder thanks to the fact that it's quick progression and thus isn't stuck with 5th-6th like other classes when you only get 8+ levels in them. Ban Evocation as your second school; it doesn't affect your Nar Demonbinder casting giving you few of the Evocation-effects (like spontaneous Flame Strike; not useful very often, but handy if you face swarms, insane save+touch creatures without Evasion or the like).

The other Spell Focus is all up to you. Transmutation has few handy effects (Baleful Polymorph for example), Necromancy has few save-effects you may want, Divination gives you a bit different focus and Illusion has lots of Images if you go that route.


The way I'd build the character, btw:

Conjurer 5
Master Specialist 2 (free Skill Focus (Spellcraft) and extra Conjuration-spell, requiring Spell Focus (Conjuration) which you'd have anyways; not much but small benefits and makes perfect sense seeing you are a specialist)
Nar Demonbinder 1 (remember to pick up your (Improved) Familiar at this point and teach it UMD - also a class skill for Ultimate Magus. Also makes perfect sense for Master Conjurer; it's a Conjuration-class)
Ultimate Magus 10
Archmage 2 (your split was good for AM/UM; UM really loves Mastery of Shaping. Spell Power or Spell-Like Ability you could save for last; the others are handy, but not necessary - Spell-Like Ability effectively gives you an extra 9th level slot, while Spell Power makes your Blasphemies et al. all the more brutal. Matter of preference).


Last two feats: Residual Metamagic is great, especially with stuff like Maximize and while buffing. Persistent Spell is awe-friggin'-some for your buffs, allowing you to make Spell Resistance (with your beefed up caster level from the Demonbinder-side; let's just say an average caster isn't going to have more than miniscule chances of piercing it) for the whole day for your party and stuff like that (requires 10th level of UM though).

If you cannot get your DM to permit Familiar from Nar Demonbinder since you gave up your own, pick up Obtain Familiar-feat. Familiar is worth it; more spells, more fun. Also, Imps and Quasits have the extremely handy Alternate Form At Will-ability and other cool stuff like that. They're very much worth it.

Risada

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2008, 03:31:01 PM »
@Eldariel: ....I forgot about Master Specialist giving Skill Focus (Spellcraft)...

Let's change the build a bit then...

Illumian Wizard 5/Master Conjurer 2/Nar Demonbinder 1/UM 10/Archmage 2 (UA Conjurer Variant, Abrupt Jaunt, Spontaneous Divination)
Progression: Wiz 5/Master Conjurer 2/Nar 1/UM 7/AM 1/UM +2/AM+1/UM+1

*planning to grab Iron will through the magical location, as well as Split Ray through Metamagic Storm

Sigils: Naen, Krau
STR 10 DEX 14 CON 16 INT 18 WIS 14 CHA 18
1: Augmented Summoning, Improved Sigil (Krau)
3: Spell Focus (Conjuration)
6: Extend Spell, Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
9: Chain Spell
12: Quicken Spell
13: Persist Spell
15: Spell Focus (Necromancy)
18: Maximize Spell, Residual Metamagic
Grabbing Mastery of Shaping and Spell-like Ability with AM

I guess this is it, then. I only have to pass this through the DM...

Eldariel

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2008, 03:46:31 PM »
Pick up Quicken earlier. Seriously, EVERY level 12 caster has Quicken Spell. The ones who forgot to pick it are all dead. I would bump Spell Focus (Necromancy) into level 15 (and if necessary, take AM level 1 level later appropriately) with Chain Spell on 9, Quicken Spell on 12, Maximize where it is now and Spell Focus on 15 (although I dunno, you may want Persistent Spell already earlier; 13 could be a good place, taking Maximize last as it's only really good with Residual Metamagic).

Oh yeah, flaws?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 03:51:18 PM by Eldariel »

Risada

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2008, 03:55:29 PM »
Pick up Quicken earlier. Seriously, EVERY level 12 caster has Quicken Spell. The ones who forgot to pick it are all dead. I would bump Spell Focus (Necromancy) into level 15 (and if necessary, take AM level 1 level later appropriately) with Chain Spell on 9, Quicken Spell on 12, Maximize where it is now and Spell Focus on 15 (although I dunno, you may want Persistent Spell already earlier; 13 could be a good place, taking Maximize last as it's only really good with Residual Metamagic).

Oh yeah, flaws?

No flaws.... the DM is terribly stingy when it comes to feats.... he barely allowed me to use the magical locations...

EDIT: modified the build two posts above

Eldariel

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2008, 04:05:45 PM »
See, that's the funny part and why I asked if Flaws are a go - I'd easily allow flaws when GMing, but it would take a great degree of persuasion to get me to allow magical locations and similars.

Risada

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2008, 04:19:16 PM »
See, that's the funny part and why I asked if Flaws are a go - I'd easily allow flaws when GMing, but it would take a great degree of persuasion to get me to allow magical locations and similars.

"Since with the magical locations you have to pay or do something else to get the benefit, one can take flaws that will never cost or limit his character..." (DM's words)

I tried to persuade him, but he is quite persistant once he sets himself...

Eldariel

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2008, 07:12:21 PM »
A suggestion, btw. Take Iron Will as a real feat and Extend Spell (or any metamagic) as Location-feat, since Location-feats technically could be lost, while feats that are on your character cannot. While I don't believe it'll truly matter, you must remember that if you lose prerequisites for a PrC, you lose its abilities and therefore you'd not only lose Nar Demonbinder, but UM abilities too if you ever somehow lost the Iron Will-feat. Therefore, I find it important that it's taken as a feat you're as unlikely to lose as possible.

Risada

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2008, 10:36:55 PM »
A suggestion, btw. Take Iron Will as a real feat and Extend Spell (or any metamagic) as Location-feat, since Location-feats technically could be lost, while feats that are on your character cannot. While I don't believe it'll truly matter, you must remember that if you lose prerequisites for a PrC, you lose its abilities and therefore you'd not only lose Nar Demonbinder, but UM abilities too if you ever somehow lost the Iron Will-feat. Therefore, I find it important that it's taken as a feat you're as unlikely to lose as possible.

Hmm.... you're right. It would suck real BAD if I suddenly lose a lot of PrC levels.... thanks  :D

Straw_Man

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2008, 11:54:20 PM »
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

Omen of Peace

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2008, 06:53:42 AM »
With Nar Demonbinder your CL pretty much equalizes automatically, so you don't have to go Illumian if you want different abilities.

Also, I wouldn't complain about DM stinginess if you can play this build. :) I hope your teammates are optimized.

Quote from: Eldariel
Pick up Quicken earlier. Seriously, EVERY level 12 caster has Quicken Spell. The ones who forgot to pick it are all dead.
That's a funny overstatement, given that casters without metamagics reducers can only quicken 2nd-level spells at this point...

I would say that all level 12 casters have the Circlet of Rapid Casting. :P
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Risada

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Re: GOD trapped in hell...
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2008, 11:04:37 AM »
With Nar Demonbinder your CL pretty much equalizes automatically, so you don't have to go Illumian if you want different abilities.

I picked Illumian for the extra DC I can get with him....

Also, I wouldn't complain about DM stinginess if you can play this build. :) I hope your teammates are optimized.

Well.... only the Ranger is gonna be less optimal (he has about the same experience as me, but he still mistakes a d8 with a d10, and he doesn't read the books to look for something.... :wall)...