Author Topic: General Dread Necro advice  (Read 17396 times)

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McPoyo

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2010, 08:50:38 AM »
So, my two cents' worth.

Spellstitching Animate Dead is a shenanigan I've never seen a DM let a player get away with. Before you put your hopes on it, check with your DM - he may just be more lenient than any DM I've ever played with.

That said, I personally like Pale Master as a way to get undead hordes on the cheap. Pale Master gets a bad rap, because the first level is admittedly every single kind of terrible. The thing is, the rest of the class is quite good (although you might want to stick to two levels so as not to cut into your massive horde if your DM rules that it's class-level bound) and, most importantly, DMs will accept it who would not accept spellstitching. A DM who disallows Pale Master is, let's face it, not going to allow free-undead shenanigans at all and honestly might not be thrilled with undead armies as a general rule - as always, ask first to avoid friction.
I've never had that problem with the games I played in. Then again, with all the ways to get onyx free animations, not to mention all the ways to get more money than relevant to just raising, I've always had "I won't abuse your game, if you don't be a douche and unfairly penalize my character to prevent me from doing my thing when you don't do it to everyone else." Agreements.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2010, 08:52:47 AM by McPoyo »
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Benly

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2010, 06:39:42 PM »
I've never had that problem with the games I played in. Then again, with all the ways to get onyx free animations, not to mention all the ways to get more money than relevant to just raising, I've always had "I won't abuse your game, if you don't be a douche and unfairly penalize my character to prevent me from doing my thing when you don't do it to everyone else." Agreements.

I don't consider a DM to be a douche for barring Spellstitching, as it does smack somewhat of shenanigans. On the other hand, free Animate Dead with Pale Master is pretty blatantly exactly what you're supposed to be doing with the class, so the only reason it tends to get turned down is if the DM isn't comfortable with free undead armies (which is, in my opinion, fairly reasonable.)

Edit: To be more specific, Spellstitching feels like a shenanigan because (a) it's very strangely priced, with a ridiculously low GP cost relative to its XP cost, (b) it is a LA - template being applied to a PC, and (c) unlike pretty much every other magical item which grants a spell effect, it has no special requirements or cost changes regarding expensive components or XP components. It feels like the creation rules were almost an afterthought, in which light I can hardly consider "refusal to permit an LA - template" unfairly penalizing a character.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2010, 07:23:12 PM by Benly »

McPoyo

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2010, 10:38:23 PM »
I've never had that problem with the games I played in. Then again, with all the ways to get onyx free animations, not to mention all the ways to get more money than relevant to just raising, I've always had "I won't abuse your game, if you don't be a douche and unfairly penalize my character to prevent me from doing my thing when you don't do it to everyone else." Agreements.

I don't consider a DM to be a douche for barring Spellstitching, as it does smack somewhat of shenanigans. On the other hand, free Animate Dead with Pale Master is pretty blatantly exactly what you're supposed to be doing with the class, so the only reason it tends to get turned down is if the DM isn't comfortable with free undead armies (which is, in my opinion, fairly reasonable.)

Edit: To be more specific, Spellstitching feels like a shenanigan because (a) it's very strangely priced, with a ridiculously low GP cost relative to its XP cost, (b) it is a LA - template being applied to a PC, and (c) unlike pretty much every other magical item which grants a spell effect, it has no special requirements or cost changes regarding expensive components or XP components. It feels like the creation rules were almost an afterthought, in which light I can hardly consider "refusal to permit an LA - template" unfairly penalizing a character.
I meant forcing a chqracter to spend a large amount of his personal wealth for a few minions, who will constantly require making new ones throught the game. It's similar to telling a player "You have to spend 1/2 your wealthon potions, instead of other magic gear. Everyone else can spend all of theirs on magical gear." If it wasn't a cost that would need renewing ad the character leveled and fought, iwouldnt. Have a problem with it otherwise. If it isn't appropriate for thegame to be an armymancer, just tell the player straight up, don't go passive/aggressive on his wealth.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Benly

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2010, 12:59:26 AM »
I meant forcing a chqracter to spend a large amount of his personal wealth for a few minions, who will constantly require making new ones throught the game. It's similar to telling a player "You have to spend 1/2 your wealthon potions, instead of other magic gear. Everyone else can spend all of theirs on magical gear." If it wasn't a cost that would need renewing ad the character leveled and fought, iwouldnt. Have a problem with it otherwise. If it isn't appropriate for thegame to be an armymancer, just tell the player straight up, don't go passive/aggressive on his wealth.

I'm not really sure what you're suggesting. If you're suggesting that Animate Dead is overpriced, I somewhat agree, although I think endless hordes for no gold cost or character resource investment (i.e. making it a no-component spell by default) would be a bit much - hence why I'm fond of Pale Master, as a two-level dip seems like a reasonable cost.

If what you want really is "a few minions", Animate Dead's cost isn't that bad. You only need free Animate if you want to have huge armies or want to chew through your minions like popcorn, and I think requiring some character investment for a defining feature like that is reasonable. There also DMs who don't want the headache of dealing with huge minion armies, which is why I would always ask a DM in advance if he's okay with whatever free-Animate trick you're planning, Pale Master included.

I may be the exception: I talk to the DM about whatever PrC I'm planning before I start building towards it to make sure he both understands what I'm doing with my character and is okay with the idea. If he's not okay with it, I find out why, and if we can't find a compromise everyone's happy with I work on another idea.

(Also, if you want "a few minions", consider skipping Animate Dead entirely and blowing two feats on Shape Soulmeld: Necrocarnum Circlet and Open Least Chakra. You only get one at a time, but NCZs are better than regular Animated undead and are trivial to replace when they die.)

veekie

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2010, 03:39:11 PM »
There is a resource cost with Animate Dead though, your control capacity. It's not that high if you want decent undead pets, since they have ludicrous HD and you only can handle a small number that'd be at all useful at your level. Legions of 1HD skeletons are cool but almost entirely negligible at the levels you can get said legions.

Well, unless you got a bard with Requiem doing Inspiring, lots of skeleton archers...
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[spoiler]
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Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
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[/spoiler]

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Echoes

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2010, 04:02:15 PM »
Yup.  They never bothered to state how long the effect lasts.  By RAW, you simply "become Shaken" and lacking any ability to change that condition you stay that way until something tells you you're not (like a spell that removes fear, or something).  You could stay Shaken for years.  I strongly doubt that's how it's meant to be played, but nothing in the Dread Necromancer rules actually gives a duration to this ability.  You're pretty much going to have to house rule.

My group uses "Class level rounds" as the duration, if that helps.

JaronK

Y'know, with Imperious Command and some demoralize action, you can make entire groups cower forever. That's pimp.
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Quotes I Found Entertaining:

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As a general rule, murdering people and taking their stuff is pretty much superior to breaking their stuff, murdering them, then not having any stuff to take.

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[spoiler]
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You'll see the party and only be able to respond, "Oh yeah baby."
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2010, 04:32:28 PM »
I may or may not worry about Pale Master.  Because it's a solo game, losing a caster level doesn't leave me lagging behind the rest of the group's casters or anything.  The acquisition of onyx may or may not be a problem.  I know it's been a plot point in at least two games in the past (evil necromancers breaking into gem stores to steal them), and it's already come up in this game (I'm working with a higher level necromancer who already had me case a jewelry store so he could get an idea).

Luckily, I have about six levels to figure out if this will really matter, and I may hoard any onyx I find along the way.  Right now, the DM's being pretty lenient with me.  I met this higher level necromancer when I hit level 2, and he let me buy a skeleton off of him for 25 gp, and I simply Rebuked and Controlled the thing.  The DM also hinted that it's not hard for me to replace them (at least at this point).

Now, I need to think longer term, as 3rd level is coming around the corner.  I'm debating on taking Corpsecrafter, and then possibly Nimble Bones or Destruction Retribution at 6th level.  At this point, I don't have any other good ideas.  I'll have to check the prereqs on Pale Master.  I seem to remember having to blow one feat on garbage.


In case anyone cares, I ended up drawing the character and posted some of the pics in this post.  I may have to re-post them, because they turned out a bit pale when I scanned them in.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

snakeman830

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2010, 04:51:43 PM »
I would go with Nimble Bones before Destruction Retribution, personally.  Better to have faster minions than ones that explode (possibly dangerously) on death.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

RobbyPants

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2010, 05:24:01 PM »
I agree about it being nicer having them all be fast and alive (or not dead :p) then having them die.  Still, they don't explode "dangerously" in that I have Tome Tainted Soul.  I suppose it could be a problem if I get some living NPCs running around with me.

I guess +4 Init and +10 speed is likely more useful in more circumstances.

Are there any other good Corpsecrafter feats?  I only know of two more in Libris Mortis, which are largely crap.  Are there any others posted elsewhere, either home-brewed or in Dragon or something?  If the DM likes something enough, he usually allows it.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

snakeman830

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2010, 05:27:30 PM »
I agree about it being nicer having them all be fast and alive (or not dead :p) then having them die.  Still, they don't explode "dangerously" in that I have Tome Tainted Soul.  I suppose it could be a problem if I get some living NPCs running around with me.

I guess +4 Init and +10 speed is likely more useful in more circumstances.

Are there any other good Corpsecrafter feats?  I only know of two more in Libris Mortis, which are largely crap.  Are there any others posted elsewhere, either home-brewed or in Dragon or something?  If the DM likes something enough, he usually allows it.
Afraid not on that.  However, ask your DM about animating the variant skeletons and zombies in Libris Mortis.  Some of those make your minions far more useful while not necessarily more powerful.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Tenebrous Apostate

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2010, 07:14:15 PM »
Why hasn't anyone suggested Fell Animate yet? If you get a Ghostly Visage familiar you can Coup de Grace everything you paralyze with, I don't know, Chill Touch and have them be your zombies for free and if the stories are true without control limit...
Dead mortals feel no Dread

JaronK

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2010, 09:41:28 PM »
Y'know, with Imperious Command and some demoralize action, you can make entire groups cower forever. That's pimp.

Heh, never found a DM that allowed that.  Then again, my current DM that I'm playing a DN with has been nerfing the class really hard of late... somehow every monster we face is a construct that can't be raised from the dead, or a shadow elemental that's immune to mind effecting and fades away when killed.  Funny that.

JaronK

Echoes

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2010, 10:48:57 PM »
Y'know, with Imperious Command and some demoralize action, you can make entire groups cower forever. That's pimp.

Heh, never found a DM that allowed that.  Then again, my current DM that I'm playing a DN with has been nerfing the class really hard of late... somehow every monster we face is a construct that can't be raised from the dead, or a shadow elemental that's immune to mind effecting and fades away when killed.  Funny that.

JaronK

Oh, neither have I. I was just pointing out that Dread necromancers live up to their name, being the scariest mofos in the game RAW. Take Dread Witch and make Paladins curl up in the corner for the rest of their lives (which isn't long, because they'll starve to death while they cower).
BrokeAndDrive speaks the Truth (linked for great justice and signature limits)

Quotes I Found Entertaining:

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

As a general rule, murdering people and taking their stuff is pretty much superior to breaking their stuff, murdering them, then not having any stuff to take.

Out of Context Theater
[spoiler]
Oh I'll make a party. I'll make a party so hard... I'll make a party that makes you feel so awkward downstairs.

You'll see the party and only be able to respond, "Oh yeah baby."
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2010, 09:35:07 AM »
I never actually considered the undead variants form LM.  The DM would like a lot of those, but it seems like they react oddly with stuff like Rebuking.  IIRC, the modifications add to their CR, but not to their HD, so I could still Rebuke and control them just the same.

I don't know why WotC ever thought it was a good idea to have CR and HD function so differently, and then have various mechanics function off of HD as if it actually meant something.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

zaulsiin

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2010, 10:21:02 AM »
I agree about it being nicer having them all be fast and alive (or not dead :p) then having them die.  Still, they don't explode "dangerously" in that I have Tome Tainted Soul.  I suppose it could be a problem if I get some living NPCs running around with me.

I guess +4 Init and +10 speed is likely more useful in more circumstances.

Are there any other good Corpsecrafter feats?  I only know of two more in Libris Mortis, which are largely crap.  Are there any others posted elsewhere, either home-brewed or in Dragon or something?  If the DM likes something enough, he usually allows it.

Just make sure to give your mindless minions standing orders regarding combat, or that initiative boost is going to be pretty worthless. Don't want them winning initiative only to stand around waiting for you to tell them what to do.

RobbyPants

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #55 on: August 18, 2010, 10:40:40 AM »
That's actually a good point.  I need to figure out how to word it so that they're not a liability.  I don't bring my skeleton around civilians much, but I do have my skeleton follow me around in the woods.  Since I'm friendly with a necromancer hiding out there, I don't want it attacking his minions.

My typical standing orders in the past have been: "Follow me. Don't attack anyone unless I attack them.  Attack anyone who attacks you."

Some of that is a little open-ended.  The problem is, since I'm controlling it via Rebuke Undead at this point, it takes a standard action to give it new orders.  What's your advice on this?  Modify the orders before hand if I know I'm heading into hostile territory?  Even now, the skeleton has a better Init mod than me (+5 to my +3).
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

McPoyo

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #56 on: August 18, 2010, 10:43:21 AM »
Talking is a free action. Modify them to attack when you say a specific word.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #57 on: August 18, 2010, 12:32:05 PM »
Talking is a free action.  Directing rebuked undead is a standard action.

Given the SRD on the matter:
Quote from: SRD
Commanded

A commanded undead creature is under the mental control of the evil cleric. The cleric must take a standard action to give mental orders to a commanded undead. At any one time, the cleric may command any number of undead whose total Hit Dice do not exceed his level. He may voluntarily relinquish command on any commanded undead creature or creatures in order to command new ones.

Now, here's a good question: can the mental order be "Follow my verbal instructions"?  If that's the case, then I can do simple directing as a free action, which would be the cat's ass.  It seems reasonable to me.  Is that how other people run it?
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
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Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
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zaulsiin

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #58 on: August 18, 2010, 12:38:05 PM »
Talking is a free action. Modify them to attack when you say a specific word.

By RAW, free actions can only be taken on your turn. Which you won't get until after the minion's turn, if they beat your initiative.

As for specific pre-combat orders, I'm afraid I have very little experience in dealing with mindless minions. The Dread Necro that I've built for myself is still just a character concept at the moment, as the campaign it's intended for hasn't begun. It's a tricky thing, because you can't really expect them to take the initiative (heh) on anything that is even a little vague. Modifying your orders to something like "Follow me. Attack anyone that appears hostile to me.  Attack anyone who attacks you." might work, but the ambiguity to the term "hostile" could cause problems. How does a mindless creature judge these things? They may ignore something that you would clearly define as hostile, while also attacking without reservation something that you consider completely harmless.

I'm sure someone smarter than myself can come up with a much better response for you. :P

Edit: Apparently I should have read the PHB before posting, instead of after...
Excerpt from PHB, pg. 144:
Quote
In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when
it isn’t your turn
. Some DMs may rule that a character can only
speak on his turn, or that a character can’t speak while flat-footed
(and thus can’t warn allies of a surprise threat until he has a chance
to act). Speaking more than few sentences is generally beyond the
limit of a free action; to communicate more information than that,
your DM may require that you take a move action or even a fullround
action.
Relevant bit is underlined. So, at the DM's discretion, "speaking" may, in fact, be a special immediate action, and McPoyo's solution would therefore be valid.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 12:48:13 PM by zaulsiin »

PhaedrusXY

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Re: General Dread Necro advice
« Reply #59 on: August 18, 2010, 12:46:25 PM »
Talking is a free action. Modify them to attack when you say a specific word.

By RAW, free actions can only be taken on your turn. Which you won't get until after the minion's turn, if they beat your initiative.
Actually... talking can be specifically done during someone else's turn.

Edit: Doh. Ninja-edited. :P
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]