Author Topic: Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.  (Read 6296 times)

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bradywan

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Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.
« on: August 03, 2010, 12:11:46 AM »

 What are some pro's and con's here?

 Familiars will get improved evasion, empathic link, speak with master, better natural ac, etc.  Have lousy hp and overall limited usefulness as levels increase

 Cohort would have better hp, actual job abilities, probably more useful. Party will bitch about splitting xp


 Party consists of a warblade/bloodstorm blade, VoP monk/psychic warrior, scout/ranger and myself a wizard.  We have an npc cleric with us.  Job recommendations for impy?

 Any 3.0 or 3.5 WotC book allowed, 3rd party and Dragon at DM approval.



Solo

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Re: Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2010, 12:13:23 AM »
Imp familiars get Commune.

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Gunhaven

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Re: Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2010, 12:25:38 AM »
Leadership and doing your best to maximize it.  If you could some how get +15 (the point that a level 6 would get a 6th level follower and you would get books thrown at you) you could have your own army.

Improved Follower would probably involve less thrown books and would probably get you a better return.
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dna1

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Re: Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2010, 03:33:47 AM »
+1 for improved familiar
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Unbeliever

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Re: Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2010, 03:49:48 AM »
+1, improved familiar is generally thought to be less broken than Leadership.  And, it's pretty damn good, though it depends a bit on what you want this follower to be doing.  Share spells is golden.

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Re: Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2010, 08:12:59 AM »
Cohort would have better hp, actual job abilities, probably more useful. Party will bitch about splitting xp
Just throwing something in here, cohorts don't mooch off the party's XP. They get their own XP.

Other than that, +1 for Imp Familiar unless you want it to be doing something in combat (in which case you shouldn't be using an imp).
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Empirate

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Re: Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2010, 10:41:40 AM »
I was wondering about the XP thing. Way I handle it, the three PCs get XP as if there were four of them (one of them has a Cohort). The Cohort doesn't get a share of XP but stays exactly two levels behind his boss at all times. Probably houseruled, but it works nicely for my group. What's the RAW on this?

Agita

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Re: Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2010, 10:44:25 AM »
I was wondering about the XP thing. Way I handle it, the three PCs get XP as if there were four of them (one of them has a Cohort). The Cohort doesn't get a share of XP but stays exactly two levels behind his boss at all times. Probably houseruled, but it works nicely for my group. What's the RAW on this?
The RAW are exactly what the feat says:
Quote
Cohorts earn XP as follows:

The cohort does not count as a party member when determining the party’s XP.

Divide the cohort’s level by the level of the PC with whom he or she is associated (the character with the Leadership feat who attracted the cohort).

Multiply this result by the total XP awarded to the PC and add that number of experience points to the cohort’s total.

If a cohort gains enough XP to bring it to a level one lower than the associated PC’s character level, the cohort does not gain the new level—its new XP total is 1 less than the amount needed attain the next level.
A group of three with a cohort still gets XP individually as if they were a group of three, then the cohort gets some XP of its own. Extra XP, essentially.
Having the cohort always stay two levels behind is a good houserule to lessen bookkeeping on the DM's part, but there's absolutely no reason to punish the rest of the party for one player's decision to take a certain feat.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 10:46:47 AM by Agita »
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Re: Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2010, 11:18:10 AM »
Imp familiars get Commune.
Quasits also get you commune, fly at the same speed, and get two attacks per round with the same strength poison.

Of course, you have to be very careful about when you use your familiar in combat, but a quasit can potentially dish out twice as much.
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wotmaniac

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Re: Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2010, 12:09:33 PM »
(just confirming Agita ...)

Cohorts don't effect xp (the split you're thinking of is treasure, but I don't know of any groups that actually divvy-up treasure like that)

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Empirate

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Re: Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2010, 01:46:01 PM »
A group of three with a cohort still gets XP individually as if they were a group of three, then the cohort gets some XP of its own. Extra XP, essentially.
Having the cohort always stay two levels behind is a good houserule to lessen bookkeeping on the DM's part, but there's absolutely no reason to punish the rest of the party for one player's decision to take a certain feat.

Thanks a lot for the clarification! I tried giving out XP as if the Cohort wasn't there, but it makes the Leadership feat very good. I know it is awesome, and maybe it's even supposed to be so, but when I explained about the XP thing, my players didn't even bat an eye.
I guess they like staying at a level a little longer, so as to get used to new toys, not level up before ever using half of them. Maybe it's a slight nerf, but I found a controllable NPC built to the specs of the controlling player was quite good in itself already. In-game, I make sure the Cohort comes with good enough equipment to hold his own, and he never demands payment or anything, so at least on that side my PCs are getting third shares, not fourth.

bradywan

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Re: Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2010, 05:36:03 AM »

  Thanks for clearing up the cohort xp things guys, I can't believe I botched that up. Looks like sticking with improved familiar is the way to go. I appreciate your time all. Luckily for me, due to a house rule, I have UMD on my skill list. Impy will be getting a wand or two.

ninjarabbit

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Re: Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2010, 05:47:35 PM »
Share spell is the best reason for improved familiar, especially with alter self/polymorph/shapechange

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Re: Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2010, 08:41:33 PM »
Planar familiar can get you a mirror mephit.  If you don't go nuts with the simulacrum ability, it should be pretty cool and non-broken.
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Re: Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2010, 04:19:15 AM »
Share spell is the best reason for improved familiar, especially with alter self/polymorph/shapechange

Ahem.

Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability.

because psionics can never be as good as casting, and they had schism.
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Re: Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2010, 10:28:41 AM »
Well, if you go for Leadership, you can always have your imp pick up levels of Fiend of Possession, which is really OP.

Or go familiar for a caster. Somehow you should get Use Magic Device as a class skill so your imp can use spell completion items like wands and staves since it can speak. That would be pretty cool IMO.
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Re: Leadership or Improved Familiar? Wizard seeks Imp.
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2010, 11:53:42 AM »
Shining South has the Beguiler as an Improved Familiar option (a small groundhog-like Magical Beast). Good stats mostly, and a racial ability to blend in with their surroundings. Those guys have Int 12 or so (smarter than most Sorcerers...), can speak and use tools with their paws, have a prehensile tail (which they can even use to fight), and - the real seller - they have True Seeing on all the time.
If this thing is not a great familiar, I don't know what is.