Author Topic: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?  (Read 21944 times)

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carnivore

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Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« on: July 29, 2010, 02:29:30 PM »
Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat? .... why are they condsidered bad picks for Barbarians?

 :D

DMM4ever

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2010, 02:31:44 PM »
con penalties make my HP box cry.

Elf barbarian has some awesome flavor, though.

something random

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2010, 02:46:49 PM »
Also the duration of rage one of a barbarians main class features is determined by the barbarians con modifier.
Am I the only one who's mind was broken when they realized the implication of the existence of the aberration bloodline.

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2010, 02:54:03 PM »
Is this gonna get interesting soon :P?
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veekie

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2010, 02:55:12 PM »
I wonder how much better they'd be if the penalty stat was switched to Str. Seems to me that'd make them a great deal more appealing.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

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"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
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[/spoiler]

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emaNsdrawkcaB

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2010, 03:11:09 PM »
A list of Elves without a Con penalty:

Aquatic Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft. (swim 40 ft)., fighter, humanoid (elf, aquatic), monster manual pg.103
Arctic Elf: +2 Dex -2 Str, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.9
Desert Elf: +2 Dex -2 Str, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.12
Kagonesti: +2 Dex -2 Int -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., humanoid (elf), dragonlance campaign setting pg.18
Painted Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft., druid, humanoid (elf), sandstorm pg.42
Snow Elf: +2 Dex -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), frostburn pg.34
Wild Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft., sorcerer, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104

Also, to those who say Elves are a bad choice, may I remind them of the Revenant Blade and the Eternal Blade.

Littha

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2010, 03:14:22 PM »
A list of Elves without a Con penalty:

Aquatic Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft. (swim 40 ft)., fighter, humanoid (elf, aquatic), monster manual pg.103
Arctic Elf: +2 Dex -2 Str, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.9
Desert Elf: +2 Dex -2 Str, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.12
Kagonesti: +2 Dex -2 Int -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., humanoid (elf), dragonlance campaign setting pg.18
Painted Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft., druid, humanoid (elf), sandstorm pg.42
Snow Elf: +2 Dex -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), frostburn pg.34
Wild Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft., sorcerer, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104

Also, to those who say Elves are a bad choice, may I remind them of the Revenant Blade and the Eternal Blade.

You will probably find that most people drop racial prereqs on PRCs, they are a stupid idea to begin with.

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2010, 03:21:50 PM »
You will probably find that most people drop racial prereqs on PRCs, they are a stupid idea to begin with.

And that some people HATE ELVES. It isn't an elf discussion until someone points this out.

Out of all of the elves in Eman's post, only Wild Elves are respectable.

Wait, why is there a Snow Elf and an Artic Elf? The latter was printed first, why didn't they just reprint it? All they did was add another subrace.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2010, 03:26:41 PM »
Quote
Out of all of the elves in Eman's post, only Wild Elves are respectable.
What's wrong with the Wild and Snow elves?

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emaNsdrawkcaB

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2010, 03:31:32 PM »
Kagonesti are the only bad choice, the rest are the same, pretty much.

How funny would it be if Arctic and Snow elves were sworn enemies. They look the exact same and only they could tell one another apart.

Bozwevial

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2010, 03:36:53 PM »
Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat? .... why are they condsidered bad picks for Barbarians?

Frantic Rage+Weapon Finesse+Shadow Blade?

Prime32

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2010, 03:38:36 PM »
Kagonesti are the only bad choice, the rest are the same, pretty much.
IIRC that subrace has extra abilities.

Frantic Rage+Weapon Finesse+Shadow Blade?
Frantic Rage?
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The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Bozwevial

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2010, 03:42:19 PM »
Frantic Rage+Weapon Finesse+Shadow Blade?
Frantic Rage?
Feat from FoE that subs Dex bonuses for Str bonuses in a rage.

Maybe Whirling Frenzy? Of course, then you'd have shorter rages because you'd have no Con bonus...

Ian Frost

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2010, 03:47:06 PM »
Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat? .... why are they condsidered bad picks for Barbarians?

 :D
"All martial weapon proficiencys" makes there racial feats redundant

Bozwevial

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2010, 03:48:44 PM »
Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat? .... why are they condsidered bad picks for Barbarians?

 :D
"All martial weapon proficiencys" makes there racial feats redundant
Retrain them with the DCFS, I guess.

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2010, 03:50:15 PM »
What's wrong with the Wild and Snow elves?

Wild Elves are at least partially badass.

Snow Elves melt under a magnifying glass. I have no love for creatures that share a type weakness with ants.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Prime32

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2010, 03:51:56 PM »
What if you gave elves the ability to cast three cantrips per day, as a wizard? (added to their spells per day if they have wizard levels) It would help with some of the flavour problems, at least.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2010, 04:04:51 PM »
Still doesn't solve the fundamental issue of dumping con, but does help with the lack of race features.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2010, 04:08:57 PM »
What if you gave elves the ability to cast three cantrips per day, as a wizard? (added to their spells per day if they have wizard levels) It would help with some of the flavour problems, at least.
They'd still suck. The only good elves are dead elves. Or undead elves. :D
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Prime32

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Re: Why are Elves considered Bad choices for Combat?
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2010, 04:10:20 PM »
What if you gave elves the ability to cast three cantrips per day, as a wizard? (added to their spells per day if they have wizard levels) It would help with some of the flavour problems, at least.
They'd still suck. The only good elves are dead elves. Or undead elves. :D
:fo you, lousy metabolism!  :p
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]