Author Topic: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?  (Read 3447 times)

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Amechra

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Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« on: July 27, 2010, 02:05:44 AM »
More specifically, is there a way to raise your manifester level for the power you gain through the feat?

I'm asking so I can know if there's a way to boost Astral Construct up to cheesetastic levels without taking any levels in a psionic class. You know, for shits & giggles.

So, is there?
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Arcane-surge

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2010, 02:10:12 AM »
I think you're talking about Hidden Talent, and maybe. If you're a spellcaster, you could take Spell Focus (Conjuration) and the Psiotheurgist feat (Dragon 349), which makes your caster level and manifester level stack.
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2010, 02:48:08 AM »
Any magic item that boosts Caster Level affects your Manifester Level. Thanks to Insane Troll Logic, if your ML gets boosted above 0, you have a Manifester Level, thus Hidden Talent is forced to reference that level instead. May not fly with all DMs, but do remember that you have no PP other than what Hidden Talent gives you (you don't have a Key Manifester Stat, so the mathmatic formula doesn't work).

Hidden Talent works best with Mind Link, not AC. You'd have to by a Cognizance Crystal for every daily use of a higher-level Astral Construct you summon (IE you'd need 4 17pp crystals to summon a maxed-out AC during the standard 4 encounters/day). Whereas with Mind Link, a bunch of +1 Manifester Sling Bullets gives you 250 daily uses of a power that's actually somewhat useful.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Amechra

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2010, 03:33:07 AM »
There's one reason I want it for AC; Skin of the Construct.

1d8 temporary hitpoints and an option from menu A is quite nice for a fighter or a soulknife, since it can mean a fly speed, extra hit points, and other goodies.

I want to boost the level so that the menu A option stays with me for more than 1 round.

I've been looking at Overchannel, and it looks rather decent for what I'm trying to do.

Plus, I think you can stack Skin of the Constructs, so you could potentially gain every option on menu A and a ton of temporary hit points if you have a source of power points.

If I was to make the Soulknife in e6, and I used the alternate feature that allowed me to get Hidden Talent more than once, then I would get Mind Link too.

Plus, if I get it through a class feature, wouldn't that make Soulknife my manifesting class, and thus eligable for Practiced Manifester?
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

snakeman830

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2010, 12:07:04 PM »
It can also be decent for say a Kinetecist to grab Astral Construct.  If I had no other feats necessitating 1st level, I would grab Hidden Talent (AC) as just about any psion.  2 pp and 2 levels ahead of Expanded Knowledge?  Why not?
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
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That explains so much about my life.
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Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

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Prime32

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2010, 12:11:10 PM »
Practiced Manifester increases your ML by 4.

Any magic item that boosts Caster Level affects your Manifester Level. Thanks to Insane Troll Logic, if your ML gets boosted above 0, you have a Manifester Level, thus Hidden Talent is forced to reference that level instead. May not fly with all DMs, but do remember that you have no PP other than what Hidden Talent gives you (you don't have a Key Manifester Stat, so the mathmatic formula doesn't work).
Wait, does this mean that if you take a Host feat, Hidden Talent uses its ML?

Note also that your bonus pp are calculated from your ML, so a 20th-level char with a Host feat and 18 Cha would have 20 bonus power points even though the feat doesn't grant any. Likewise, someone with Wild Talent/Hidden Talent can have additional pp from a high ability score.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 12:24:23 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

awaken DM golem

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2010, 08:14:48 PM »
Amechra - "I think you can stack Skin of the Constructs"

hmm ... interesting ... only if you are Not using the CPsi AC nerf
which is completely reasonable (the not using the nerf).


**


Yep,
Hidden Talent + [Host] = good (minor) stuff, outside of a certain t.o.board build.

E6 doesn't jack MLs or CLs very much, but with the small pile of feats, as the only way to go up,
sooner or later the MLs start to climb. Psiotheurgist = 2nd.

Saeomon

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2010, 09:09:38 PM »
hmm ... interesting ... only if you are Not using the CPsi AC nerf
which is completely reasonable (the not using the nerf).


You can do it even with the nerf, according to the text of the feat.

I imagine more than a few DMs would rule that you can only have one AC skin at a time, regardless of whether or not they're using the nerf.

I'd like to add that Constructors can get even more mileage out of this feat. It says that feats that modify the shape or abilities of AC don't allow you to get additional menu choices, but Constructors get a class feature that adds first one, and later a second, menu choice from any menu available. So, you'd still get 3 choices at once. That ain't bad.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2010, 09:59:20 PM »
Wait, does this mean that if you take a Host feat, Hidden Talent uses its ML?

Note also that your bonus pp are calculated from your ML, so a 20th-level char with a Host feat and 18 Cha would have 20 bonus power points even though the feat doesn't grant any. Likewise, someone with Wild Talent/Hidden Talent can have additional pp from a high ability score.

The Host feats grant you an ML, so yes. Hell, even being a Kalashtar will grant you a higher ML for Hidden Talent (Mind Link as SLA).

However, I don't think you get bonus PP from Hidden Talent or an ML alone, seeing as you don't have a key manifester stat (in technical terms, it could be argued that you do, but something keeps nagging me about KMS being related to a class feature or racial trait).


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Amechra

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2010, 01:43:33 AM »
Thanks you guys. I'll look into the host feats.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

sir_argenon

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2010, 08:43:35 AM »
Wait, does this mean that if you take a Host feat, Hidden Talent uses its ML?

Note also that your bonus pp are calculated from your ML, so a 20th-level char with a Host feat and 18 Cha would have 20 bonus power points even though the feat doesn't grant any. Likewise, someone with Wild Talent/Hidden Talent can have additional pp from a high ability score.

The Host feats grant you an ML, so yes. Hell, even being a Kalashtar will grant you a higher ML for Hidden Talent (Mind Link as SLA).

However, I don't think you get bonus PP from Hidden Talent or an ML alone, seeing as you don't have a key manifester stat (in technical terms, it could be argued that you do, but something keeps nagging me about KMS being related to a class feature or racial trait).

im confused about what disqualifies hidden talent as having a key manifester stat. 

it mentions charisma twice in the text of the feat, saying you need a Cha of at least 11, and if you have no psionic class levels, then it defaults to using charisma to determine the strength, and save of the power.... and also for good measure it tells you that you are a 1st lvl manifester. 

by my reading, charisma is clearly your Kms.  true it doesnt say so directly, but unless maybe im really missing something here, all of the qualifications that a class has for determining a KMS, this feat has.   ???

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2010, 02:38:01 PM »
by my reading, charisma is clearly your Kms.  true it doesnt say so directly, but unless maybe im really missing something here, all of the qualifications that a class has for determining a KMS, this feat has.   ???

Because it doesn't say you get bonus PP like other manifester classes. IIRC, it actually says you don't get them, explicitly.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

sir_argenon

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2010, 02:46:45 PM »
by my reading, charisma is clearly your Kms.  true it doesnt say so directly, but unless maybe im really missing something here, all of the qualifications that a class has for determining a KMS, this feat has.   ???

Because it doesn't say you get bonus PP like other manifester classes. IIRC, it actually says you don't get them, explicitly.

it doesnt say anywhere that you dont get them.

Amechra

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2010, 02:53:12 AM »
Another question; can you get first level spells from Hidden Talent?

I know, that's a retarded question, but since the Erudite can learn spells as powers, and you can grab any first level power that you want...

Wait, would a spell-as-a-power still count as a spell for the sake of feats/PrCs/ect.?

In which case,

Human Soulknife 1

1st: Wild Talent (Magic Missile)
Human: Precocious Apprentice (Any 2nd level spell)

I know I went wrong somewhere...
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Bozwevial

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2010, 03:10:45 AM »
I think you'd need the Magic mantle for that. Or something.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2010, 03:08:48 PM »
Another question; can you get first level spells from Hidden Talent?

I know, that's a retarded question, but since the Erudite can learn spells as powers, and you can grab any first level power that you want...

Wait, would a spell-as-a-power still count as a spell for the sake of feats/PrCs/ect.?

In which case,

Human Soulknife 1

1st: Wild Talent (Magic Missile)
Human: Precocious Apprentice (Any 2nd level spell)

I know I went wrong somewhere...

Feats are excluded from the Transparency. You'd need the Magic Mantle to do this, and at the point you'd be able to get that Mantle and still qualify for HT you'd all ready be a full manifester. It wouldn't be that useful considering you could just Multiclass into Wizard out of Ardent and still advance your Ardent side.

Or you'd all ready be a Spell-to-Power Erudite with no reason to switch sources (other than 9th level spells that is).


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Amechra

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2010, 03:48:49 AM »
You're right.

Damn it, I was under the impression that there was a feat that granted a mantle. Darn.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Prime32

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2010, 08:48:30 AM »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Amechra

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2010, 01:42:38 AM »
You're right.

Damn it, I was under the impression that there was a feat that granted a mantle. Darn.
http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Tap_Mantle
http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Don_Mantle

Yeah, I thought it was those, but it has access to a psionic mantle as a prereq, so it looks like you have to have a mantle in the first place.

Slightly off topic: how much more powerful would the Skin of the Construct feat be if it was houseruled to let you take menu options from higher menus, but only if you payed at least the requisite costs (7 for menu B, 13 for menu C).

Because I'm planning to homebrew up a whole tree of AC based feats, and that would be one of them.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

awaken DM golem

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Re: Any ways to boost Wild Talent?
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2010, 06:28:57 PM »
Divine Mind specifically gets to use Wis instead of Cha, with it's hidden talent feat - the mind's eye upgrade.

Mantle first, yep, to get the mantle feats.

The AC abilities list ... hmm ...
The old psi board guys thought that ACs in general, were weaker than Earth Elementals.
Whether that is totally accurate or not, it puts it in a power range.
You AND an AC
is not as strong as
You AND just an AC ability on you.

If You + AC is not overpowered,
then You + AClite is not overpowered.

Although You + AClite + all sorts of extra synergy stuff = slightly more overpowered than You + all sorts of extra synergy stuff, no AC stuff.

I say houserule away, but tell us what you come up with.