Author Topic: Mitheral Full Plate: Creation time 4 years  (Read 5627 times)

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weenog

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Re: Mitheral Full Plate: Creation time 4 years
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2010, 10:35:07 PM »
I see broken as achieving a level of power that goes well beyond the normal spectrum and can potentially derail a campaign.

One character being two characters, one of which covers three or more other characters' roles and can add another onetwo at least* with a single feat, isn't a level of power that goes well beyond the normal spectrum to you?  You've never seen that derail a campaign?

*Forgot for a moment about using wild shape for recon with the fast/sneaky forms.
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veekie

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Re: Mitheral Full Plate: Creation time 4 years
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2010, 10:37:56 PM »
Yeah, essentially, the worst kind of breakage is built straight into core, as evidenced by poor playtesting(the original playtesters reportedly never used wild shape for combat, used the animal companion as a scout and mostly used summoning and blasting spells). That's the kind of broken that can actually affect your day to day gameplay. I had a druid 2 walk into a fight meant for a party of 4(2 players have gone MIA), with only a rogue 1 for backup once. The fight still went my way, despite being a closer call than I'd like.
Things like the Find the City bomb, Haunt Shifting into X, etc generally should have set off alarm bells when you ask them what they're doing with the trick(basic idea, if you ask them and they refuse to tell the DM what it's for, it's probably fishy). Things like Polymorph less so, until you turn into a Hydra and make mincemeat of the monster your fighter was pounding to little effect.

However, more on topic, there isn't really a means of accelerating mundane crafting short of using magic. Nobody gives a damn about it, so published crafting rules are rare(when you're working with 'magical' raw materials,  you generally can afford Fabricates to do the work). Heck, the bulk of Craft skill use I know of in actual play are for the Minor/Major Creation, Polymorph Any Object, Fabricate, Stone Shape, etc spells, since mundane crafting isn't very meaningful to the game in terms of player power. So you're down to A)going around(craft a magic mithril full plate using raw mithril as the material) B) going through(Fabricate or something similar to forge it with magic) C) change the game(talk to your DM and come up with a usable houserule)
Plus, as most of these items are themselves magical, you could just use the magic item creation rules and use the value in raw ore/ingots as the gp cost, which is then shaped into the item desired.
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skydragonknight

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Re: Mitheral Full Plate: Creation time 4 years
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2010, 10:43:43 PM »
One thing you overlooked is that the Fullplate and the Mithril are separate components that are worked on simultaneously. You'll finish the full plate component long before the mithril so the time will be determined by the mithril, i.e., 9000 gp instead of 10500 for time calculations. 180 weeks instead of 210. Adjust from there.
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Nietzscheese

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Re: Mitheral Full Plate: Creation time 4 years
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2010, 10:53:37 PM »
right; I agree that casters are well above the other classes in terms of power as they can summon in replacements, and can actually become better versions of the other classes with a couple of spells.  I've never heard anyone actually effectively argue that a fighter is better than a wizard.  
I guess it really all comes back to what I initially said which was that its all relative.  They playtest to the point of making sure the classes don't derail things naturally.  To a certain degree they expect people to play whatever style they want; you can play a druid effectively and not derail a game.

Nietzscheese

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Re: Mitheral Full Plate: Creation time 4 years
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2010, 10:55:24 PM »
One thing you overlooked is that the Fullplate and the Mithril are separate components that are worked on simultaneously. You'll finish the full plate component long before the mithril so the time will be determined by the mithril, i.e., 9000 gp instead of 10500 for time calculations. 180 weeks instead of 210. Adjust from there.

Really? I thought the alternate material changed the overall price.

And honestly that doesn't make much sense from a real world standpoint either.  If you build dragon hide full plate you wouldn't build full plate from metal than begin replacing it with dragon hide
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 10:57:38 PM by Nietzscheese »

skydragonknight

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Re: Mitheral Full Plate: Creation time 4 years
« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2010, 11:19:26 PM »
Really? I thought the alternate material changed the overall price.

And honestly that doesn't make much sense from a real world standpoint either.  If you build dragon hide full plate you wouldn't build full plate from metal than begin replacing it with dragon hide

It's under rules for masterwork armor. The masterwork component is counted separate for time. Special materials are automatically masterwork, and should operate under the same rules. Hey, I didn't write the rules, but I figured I'd point that out to shave off a few weeks.
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veekie

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Re: Mitheral Full Plate: Creation time 4 years
« Reply #46 on: July 25, 2010, 11:23:18 PM »
One thing you overlooked is that the Fullplate and the Mithril are separate components that are worked on simultaneously. You'll finish the full plate component long before the mithril so the time will be determined by the mithril, i.e., 9000 gp instead of 10500 for time calculations. 180 weeks instead of 210. Adjust from there.

Really? I thought the alternate material changed the overall price.

And honestly that doesn't make much sense from a real world standpoint either.  If you build dragon hide full plate you wouldn't build full plate from metal than begin replacing it with dragon hide
If you're building dragon hide full plate you wouldn't take that long from a realistic standpoint either :P
After all, time is based on detail and volume you're working with, assuming you have tools as effective against these materials as regular metal tools with regular armor. Exotic materials have the same level of detail and same volume. Assuming you have adamant tipped tools, you can work such materials more or less in the same time.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."