Swordmage... wow...

[DemonLord57]

So, I was looking at some threads over at ENWorld when I found one talking about a swordmage character for a specific adventure. I investigated and found this:

Level 5 Dwarf Swordmage
Attributes: STR 12 CON 19 DEX 10 INT 17 WIS 14 CHA 08
Known Class Feature:
Swordmage Warding (INT bounus to AC, with one hand free; if rendered unconscious, shield fades and can be restored after a short rest) note: This is an assumption. It says +3 bonus on the character sheet.

At-Will Powers:
(For reference) Basic Melee Attack: +1 longsword / +7 vs. AC / 1d8+3 (has Weapon Focus: Longsword)

Aegis of ShieldingBooming Blade
Swordmage Attack 1
A field of sound punishes your enemy, and it becomes louder if your enemy
tries to escape.
At-Will ? Arcane, Thunder, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: +9 vs. AC
Hit: 1d8 + 5 damage, and if the target is adjacent to you at the start
of its turn and moves away, it takes 1d6 + 4 thunder damage.

Sword Burst
Swordmage Attack 1
A sweep of your sword blasts those around you with force.
At-Will ? Arcane, Force, Implement
Standard Action Close burst 1
Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: +6 vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + 4 force damage.

Encounter Powers:

Chilling BlowCorrosive Ruin
Swordmage Attack 3
You spin your blade in a tight circle in front of you, assailing foes with a
spray of flesh-melting acid.
Encounter ? Acid, Arcane, Weapon
Standard Action Close blast 3
Target: Each creature in blast
Attack: +9 vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d8 + 5 acid damage.

Dimensional WarpDaily Powers:

Frost Backlash
Swordmage Attack 1
As your enemy swings for the kill, your warding suddenly turns to ice and
lashes out at your foe with the fury of winter.
Daily ? Arcane, Cold, Weapon
Immediate Interrupt Melee weapon
Trigger: An adjacent creature hits you
Target: The creature that hit you
Attack: +9 vs. Reflex
Hit: 3d8 + 5 cold damage.
Miss: Half damage.

Lingering Lightning
Swordmage Attack 5
Tendrils of bluish white lightning course from your blade to electrocute
your enemies.
Daily ? Arcane, Lightning, Weapon
Standard Action Ranged 5
Target: One, two, or three creatures
Attack: +9 vs. Reflex, one attack per target
Hit: 1d8 + 5 damage, and ongoing 5 lightning damage (save ends).
Miss: Half damage, and no ongoing damage



Um... whoa. Double Int bonus to AC in an Int primary class.... okay.... definitely no balance issues with that..... Reduction of damage dealt by target of mark = high amount.... nice.

Apparently, some guy who was involved in the development of this character checked up with multiple people and they didn't find anything wrong with it...


edit: I forgot to give some examinations of the numbers. It looks to me like everything is Int vs. ____, and that the primary damage is all based on Int. The secondary damage is likely based on Con for Chilling Blow and Booming Blade. The reduction in damage could be a number of things. It could be 6+Int, 5+Con, Con+Int+1/2lvl, Con+Int+2, or lvl+Con. I hope for the last one, but that's mainly because it would be ridiculous...

[Runestar]

It seems kinda weird that the sample npc would opt to dump str, considering that his melee attacks appear to be governed by str.

Quick - we need a new custom race that grants bonuses to both str and int!!!

[DemonLord57]

It seems kinda weird that the sample npc would opt to dump str, considering that his melee attacks appear to be governed by str.

Quick - we need a new custom race that grants bonuses to both str and int!!!

It all seems Int based to me. (not his melee basic attack, but that's a given)

[tsuyoshikentsu]

...Annnnnnd how reliable is this source?

[DemonLord57]

...Annnnnnd how reliable is this source?

That's what I first thought, but it seems (seems being the operative term) to be reliable. They had a link to the adventure; It's called Return to the Moathouse. Of course, I couldn't see characters through that link, but some guy in the thread came out and said he'd made the character, and that he'd checked with multiple people to make sure the numbers were right...

Apparently they're playing the stand-alone-adventure at Origins right now, and some guy named Mike wrote the adventure.

[DrowVampyre]

NOTE: I know very little about 4e so far, but a friend asked me to help figure this out to play with the non sample chaarcter, and here's what we came up with. If I'm wrong with any numbers, please correct me as best you can. Thanks! (Our conclusions are bolded below)

Level 5 Dwarf Swordmage
Attributes: STR 12 CON 19 DEX 10 INT 17 WIS 14 CHA 08
Known Class Feature:
Swordmage Warding (INT bounus to AC, with one hand free; if rendered unconscious, shield fades and can be restored after a short rest)

At-Will Powers:
(For reference) Basic Attack: +1 longsword / +7 vs. AC / 1d8+3 (has Weapon Focus: Longsword)

Aegis of Shielding5 + Constitution modifier points.

Booming Blade
Swordmage Attack 1
A field of sound punishes your enemy, and it becomes louder if your enemy
tries to escape.
At-Will ? Arcane, Thunder, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Intelligence vs. AC (+2 base, +3 proficiency, +1 sword, +3 Int)
Hit: 1[W] + Intelligence modifier damage (1d8 base + 1 enhancement + 1 weapon focus + 3 Int), and if the target is adjacent to you at the start
of its turn and moves away, it takes 1d6 + Intelligence modifier thunder damage. (1d6 base + 1 enhancement + 3 Int)

Sword Burst
Swordmage Attack 1
A sweep of your sword blasts those around you with force.
At-Will ? Arcane, Force, Implement
Standard Action Close burst 1
Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex (+2 base, +1 implement [assuming a power to use a weapon as an implement like Wizard of the Spiral Tower], +3 Int)
Hit: 1d6 + Intelligence modifier force damage. (1d6 base + 1 enhancement + 3 Int)


Encounter Powers:

Chilling BlowIntelligence vs. AC (+2 base, +3 proficiency, +1 sword, +3 Int)
Hit: 1[W] + Intelligence modifier cold damage (1d8 base + 1 enhancement + 1 weapon focus + 3 Int), and the target takes Intelligence modifier cold damage each time it attacks until the start of your next turn. (1 enhancement + 3 Int)

Corrosive Ruin
Swordmage Attack 3
You spin your blade in a tight circle in front of you, assailing foes with a
spray of flesh-melting acid.
Encounter ? Acid, Arcane, Weapon
Standard Action Close blast 3
Target: Each creature in blast
Attack: Intelligence vs. Fortitude (+2 base, +3 proficiency, +1 sword, +3 Int)
Hit: 1[W] + Intelligence modifier acid damage. (1d8 base + 1 enhancement + 1 weapon focus + 3 Int)

Dimensional WarpDaily Powers:

Frost Backlash
Swordmage Attack 1
As your enemy swings for the kill, your warding suddenly turns to ice and
lashes out at your foe with the fury of winter.
Daily ? Arcane, Cold, Weapon
Immediate Interrupt Melee weapon
Trigger: An adjacent creature hits you
Target: The creature that hit you
Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex (+2 base, +3 proficiency, +1 sword, +3 Int)
Hit: 3[W] + Intelligence modifier cold damage. (3d8 base + 1 enhancement + 1 weapon focus + 3 Int)
Miss: Half damage.

Lingering Lightning
Swordmage Attack 5
Tendrils of bluish white lightning course from your blade to electrocute
your enemies.
Daily ? Arcane, Lightning, Weapon
Standard Action Ranged 5
Target: One, two, or three creatures
Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex, one attack per target (+2 base, +3 proficiency, +1 sword, +3 Int)
Hit: 1[W] + Intelligence modifier damage (1d8 base + 1 enhancement + 1 weapon focus + 3 Int), and ongoing 5 lightning damage (save ends).
Miss: Half damage, and no ongoing damage

Anyway, I know we probably got some stuff wrong, but hopefully peopel who know more than us can fix our mistakes and we can get an idea of how this class works when not tied to the pregen character. 

[DemonLord57]

...stuff...
Anyway, I know we probably got some stuff wrong, but hopefully peopel who know more than us can fix our mistakes and we can get an idea of how this class works when not tied to the pregen character. 

No, those are mostly the conclusions I came to. I put them in the edit. However, I'd say that the secondary damages are likely Con modifier, since I don't believe enhancement bonuses to your implement apply to static secondary damages like that. Also, I thought that the damage reduction could be a number of things. The most obvious would be 6+Int or 5+Con, but it could also be Con+Int+2 or Con+Int+1/2lvl or lvl+Con. The last two would be a little ridiculous, though. Still, it seems to be a very good ability, especially on bosses. Instead of trying to dissuade the opponent from attacking your allies by damaging them, which becomes negligible at higher levels (padded sumo effect), instead dissuade them from attacking your allies by preventing them from doing damage to your allies.

[X-Codes]

I don't see how double Int to AC is imbalanced, since you have to wear Light armor to get it.  You might wind up ~3-4 points ahead of a plate user, but if your shield gets disabled then you drop to ~3-4 below for the rest of the encounter.

Anyway, it looks like secondary effects are governed, by and large, by Constitution.  I also have to agree that the secondary damage of Booming Blade and Chilling Blow are almost certainly based on Constitution, not Int.

It seems that Swordmages have a lot of potential.  A lot of powers here are Weapon vs. Fort/Ref/Will which is typically an advantage.

[DemonLord57]

I don't see how double Int to AC is imbalanced, since you have to wear Light armor to get it.  You might wind up ~3-4 points ahead of a plate user, but if your shield gets disabled then you drop to ~3-4 below for the rest of the encounter.

Anyway, it looks like secondary effects are governed, by and large, by Constitution.  I also have to agree that the secondary damage of Booming Blade and Chilling Blow are almost certainly based on Constitution, not Int.

It seems that Swordmages have a lot of potential.  A lot of powers here are Weapon vs. Fort/Ref/Will which is typically an advantage.

Actually, assuming you have 18 Int at the start and take Demigod, wearing Hide armor will net you the same bonus as wearing plate (with 1*Int bonus to AC). So, if you start with 18 Int here, (not unreasonable, since it's the primary stat) and wear Hide and go Demigod, you'll have +7 AC on the plate guy, assuming the plate guy has a heavy shield. Which is ridiculous, IMO. If you start with 20 Int and go Demigod, you'll beat the next highest guy by +9 AC, and +11 if he's not using a shield. That makes you next to unhittable on AC, and you don't even have to make any sacrifices to get it.

[DemonLord57]

I just found out that the person who posted the Int bonus to AC about Warding was making an extrapolation. It only says +3 bonus to AC. I'm changing the first post to note this.

[X-Codes]

I don't think it's reasonable to assume anything higher than an 18 Int at the start (including racial modifiers) and Demigod isn't going to be the best Destiny forever, so right there the difference goes from +9 to +5, or +3 for races without a +Int.  It's not fair to assume that another Defender isn't using a Shield because you need a free hand to get the second Int to AC.

Why not 20 Int at the start?  Opportunity attacks.  If you dump strength, they'll suck.  If you get Heavy Blade Opportunity, they'll be working off Int which is much more favorable, but that also requires an investment in Strength and Dexterity early on.  Also, it appears that Constitution is a secondary attribute for Swordmages, and it's possible that Strength is as well (on the powers we don't see listed here).

All this also assumes that you're not going for a Weapon Mastery, which could very well be viable when we get to see the rest of the class, and would also make it that much harder to devote 100% of your resources to Int.

Anyway, all that said, if it's a +3 bonus then it would be fairly decent through the entire career.  If it's +Int, though, then it's only gamebreaking if you can force monsters to attack your AC exclusively.