Author Topic: The Chameleon Handbook  (Read 66622 times)

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Shiki

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #80 on: November 16, 2010, 03:03:10 AM »
Using Earth Spell instead does work, though.

I guess it could work, but the mention of Heighten still bugs me though. Nowhere in Earth Spell does it says it can go over Heighten cap, since it does say you still use Heighten but with some change. I guess it depends on how you read the feat, but I'm searching for an undeniable way to get those 9th level slots. :/

I already posted tricks with versatile spell caster which clearly stats in the FAQ that you can combine your top two level slots to cast in a spell one higher level than normal.  You can throw in sanctum spell for good measure if you want to double bump, then use the extra slot feat or PrC that grants an extra slot.

I'm not doubting this method, I'm just doubting my DM would approve of it though. :( I'll try that anyway, thanks for the remainder.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 07:40:56 AM by Shiki »
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #81 on: November 21, 2010, 05:47:24 AM »
Dragon 350:
Skillful Moment (bard/sorc/wiz divination 1)
Personal, 1 round duration, standard casting time, VS
"When casting this spell, choose one skill.  On the round after you cast the spell you make take 20 on the chosen skill as a single standard action."

So... lesser fabricate on crack.  Do a week's worth of crafting in six seconds. 



Man, the designers really suck at making spells that are supposed to let you take 20 without taking any additional time.  First Guidance of the Avatar, now this.
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McPoyo

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #82 on: November 21, 2010, 10:48:13 AM »
Makes bluff and diplomacy shenanigans even funnier.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Fadier

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #83 on: November 24, 2010, 06:14:04 AM »
Ok, the Divine Bard and From the Clerics/Druids Point of View are up and that is probably all I am going to do. I have limited it to 3.5 WotC books, but if there is something you think I have missed (I know I have not done alternate class features for example) post your suggestion on what to add and I might add it. (If I decided to delve into Dragon Magazine I would feel the urge to do it all and that would take more effort than I am willing to put in)

I also would like to do a mini-section on the best spells to take for each level. I have not actually had any experience with spellcasters so can any one suggest good 1st - 6th level spells for a Chameleon to take?

I know some obvious ones like Haste, Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic but any others that rise above the rest?
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Amechra

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #84 on: November 24, 2010, 01:57:43 PM »
Arcane Fusion.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

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snakeman830

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #85 on: December 13, 2010, 10:15:53 AM »
Under races, you're missing Karsite from Tome of Magic.  You should never consider it for going ino Chameleon (they can never cast spells), but it should be mentioned for completeness.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #86 on: December 13, 2010, 10:34:38 AM »
For completeness the human heritage variant (RoD 150) should probably be mentioned.  It's a great way to avoid having to soak a feat on qualifying.
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Conclavia

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #87 on: December 23, 2010, 11:24:42 PM »
One of my more favorite Chameleon Builds, unsure of how to finish it off.

Changeling Swashbuckler 4/Warshaper 4 or 5/Chameleon 10/X 1 or 2

and one that I've been toying with:

Human Bard 2/Human Paragon 3/Chameleon 5/Sublime Chord 10

I'd prolly take the levels as Paragon 1/ Bard 2/ Paragon 2&3/... 9th level spells, although you sacrifice some of the chameleon abilities, You could drop 1 level of the Chord for an extra chameleon level, but what you really need is chameleon 7 for which you lose 9th level casting. The only key part about the bard levels is to get bardic music so you could take any variant there.




DavidWL

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #88 on: January 17, 2011, 07:28:50 PM »
A couple of chameleon themed builds:

Multi-Threat Chameleon w/ LA Buyoff and flaws
Swiftblade/Chameleon Archer

A chameleon/spellwarp sniper might be fun ... Rogue 2/??? 6/Chameleon 7/Spellwarp Sniper 5, although you'd need trickery to qualify for spellwarp sniper.

Best,
David
Some Cool Quotes:  [spoiler]
Quote from: unknown
Non-PC activities like out of combat healing should be left to wands and NPCs. It's not fun to play a walking wand of CLW. Likewise, being a combat wall is not a viable PC role. A Wall of Force could do that.

-Sort of, but you left out the important note that a Wall of Force does it better.

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I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/spoiler]
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Hallack

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #89 on: March 08, 2011, 02:17:32 PM »
Glad thisv is still being updated.  Thanks. :clap
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dark_samuari

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #90 on: March 08, 2011, 03:43:17 PM »
One of my more favorite Chameleon Builds, unsure of how to finish it off.

Changeling Swashbuckler 4/Warshaper 4 or 5/Chameleon 10/X 1 or 2

What about Exemplar or Thief-Acrobat?

McPoyo

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #91 on: March 08, 2011, 03:55:15 PM »
One of my more favorite Chameleon Builds, unsure of how to finish it off.

Changeling Swashbuckler 4/Warshaper 4 or 5/Chameleon 10/X 1 or 2

What about Exemplar or Thief-Acrobat?
Soul eater.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Hallack

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #92 on: March 08, 2011, 04:30:20 PM »
One of my more favorite Chameleon Builds, unsure of how to finish it off.

Changeling Swashbuckler 4/Warshaper 4 or 5/Chameleon 10/X 1 or 2

What about Exemplar or Thief-Acrobat?

Binder?
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wotmaniac

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #93 on: March 08, 2011, 05:37:03 PM »
One of my more favorite Chameleon Builds, unsure of how to finish it off.

Changeling Swashbuckler 4/Warshaper 4 or 5/Chameleon 10/X 1 or 2
drop one of those down a level or 2, and pick up Uncanny Trickster 3 (CSc).  8 skill points/level, bonus skill tricks (as well as extra uses for them), and increase in 2 levels worth of class features of previous class.  I f'n love that PrC. :)

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

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Fadier

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #94 on: March 09, 2011, 04:09:34 AM »
I doubt I will ever completely abandon this Handbook, but the amount of the updates I can make to it are limited. I have mostly exausted my Chameleon related 3.5 knowledge (apart from any epiphanies). Any updates will take the form of builds people submit (when I get around to doing them, though this might just boil down to synergistic classes/PrC) or good spells for Chameleons.

As an interesting note I hit the word limit for the Divine spells, so I had to delete some things like the Books Added part.


Any thoughts on if the Binder should be blue or black?

One of my more favorite Chameleon Builds, unsure of how to finish it off.

Changeling Swashbuckler 4/Warshaper 4 or 5/Chameleon 10/X 1 or 2
drop one of those down a level or 2, and pick up Uncanny Trickster 3 (CSc).  8 skill points/level, bonus skill tricks (as well as extra uses for them), and increase in 2 levels worth of class features of previous class.  I f'n love that PrC. :)

Uncanny Trickster is a bit of a conundrum for me. I find that, barring cheese, I am always on the fence about it. The d6 hitdice is mostly a step down, the skills are nice but hardly draws you to it, it could be nice for a small boost for your reflex save. My biggest problems with it are that taking it is almost like taking a level of LA, and the skill tricks are not really good enough.

Possibly if 3.5 had continued and more skill tricks were made it would become a staple, but looking at the pre-requisites the skills are easy but once you hit 4 skill tricks I find that you have gotten all the ones that are both good and you can get. Most skill tricks are also situational or only really nessary once per encounter so using them twice an encounter is not a big deal.

What skill tricks do you find useful more than once an encounter or useful once you have the 4 pre-requisites?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 05:08:35 AM by Fadier »
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Andion Isurand

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #95 on: March 09, 2011, 06:12:18 AM »
You should include the Deep Imaskari in your list of races.

"Thousands of years of isolation combined with purposeful magical modifications have transformed these deep Imaskari into a human subrace adapted to life underground."   (from Underdark second paragraph on page 9)

The amphibious Aventi from Stormwrack (page 34) also have the human subtype.

And given you are including Aasimar and Teifling, you should also peek at Cansin (chaotic) and Axani (lawful) from Dragon Magazine 297.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 06:25:27 AM by Andion Isurand »

Hallack

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #96 on: March 09, 2011, 10:51:45 AM »
Any thoughts on if the Binder should be blue or black?


I've never played one though I've been looking at them so I'm really not sure.  With a dip and the Improved Binding feat though I think they get a good bit opened up to them.

Given the flexibility already inherent in the Chameleon the Binder's flexibility is probably not as important/useful as it could be for others.  But that really is me speaking without a good grasp of what Binders can bring to the table.
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wotmaniac

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #97 on: March 09, 2011, 08:55:48 PM »
One of my more favorite Chameleon Builds, unsure of how to finish it off.

Changeling Swashbuckler 4/Warshaper 4 or 5/Chameleon 10/X 1 or 2
drop one of those down a level or 2, and pick up Uncanny Trickster 3 (CSc).  8 skill points/level, bonus skill tricks (as well as extra uses for them), and increase in 2 levels worth of class features of previous class.  I f'n love that PrC. :)

Uncanny Trickster is a bit of a conundrum for me. I find that, barring cheese, I am always on the fence about it. The d6 hitdice is mostly a step down, the skills are nice but hardly draws you to it, it could be nice for a small boost for your reflex save. My biggest problems with it are that taking it is almost like taking a level of LA, and the skill tricks are not really good enough.

Possibly if 3.5 had continued and more skill tricks were made it would become a staple, but looking at the pre-requisites the skills are easy but once you hit 4 skill tricks I find that you have gotten all the ones that are both good and you can get. Most skill tricks are also situational or only really nessary once per encounter so using them twice an encounter is not a big deal.

What skill tricks do you find useful more than once an encounter or useful once you have the 4 pre-requisites?
A-ha!  because of the way that the Chameleon fills its role(s), it makes this all the better.

As to what skill tricks?  well, do to the versatility of the chameleon, I see about a dozen or so that I'd like to have.
As for what are nice to have for multiple times per encounter:
- conceal spellcasting
- false theurgy
- collector of stories (hello to knowledge devotion kicking all kinds of ass at low levels)
- swift concentration
- spot the weak point
- acrobatic backstap
other tricks that you wouldn't necessarily need multiple times, but I still find quite useful:
- never outnumbered
- nimble stand
- back on your feet
- easy escape
- escape attack
- nimble charge
- twisted charge
.... as a matter of fact, I like about a full half of the skill tricks, and have see any number of them used to good effect (depending ,of course, on the character concept).

but of course, as will most things, YMMV.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 10:22:40 AM by wotmaniac »

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

Greenbound Summoning RAI
Expanded Gestalt
More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
Report any wrongs I have done here.

nijineko

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #98 on: March 10, 2011, 03:03:34 AM »
I find the group intimidate to be a much needed addition... but the range is a bit silly. line of sight should be, really.
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wotmaniac

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Re: The Chameleon Handbook
« Reply #99 on: March 10, 2011, 10:23:04 AM »
I find the group intimidate to be a much needed addition... but the range is a bit silly. line of sight should be, really.
oops -- I can't believe I forgot to add that one.  fixed.

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

Greenbound Summoning RAI
Expanded Gestalt
More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
Report any wrongs I have done here.