Help me throw a dragon...

[Summerstorm]

Ok, so i am playing in one campaign, but it seems my character is pretty much destined to die (Fighter 1/Sorceror 6 - Trickster/duelist style), so i am working on replacements for when his time has come.

Reading through the Tome of Battle i found the amazingly funny throws of the Setting Sun style, and thought up a concept... but since this seems to be a harsh module - we are trying to murder our way through the shadow plane to get some dark cultists down - Tearing of the Weave or something - i think i need to optimize it thoroughly. BUT the GM limited the madness somewhat. Here are the rules for this:

TWO (2) books only, only official. (+ Core rules, Players Handbook, MM1, Dungeon Masters Guide)
No flaws and traits.
Rolled: 18,13,13,12,11,7 (Ugh... 18 is fine... but the rest is pretty underwhelming... my character now has +4 bonus more)
Starting Level 6,7 or 8, depending on when i die (not IF *g*)
Preferable: Human (With Jotunbrud feat) or Goliath, since i would like to stay medium sized. But this will cost me one book (Faerun or Races of the Stone respectivly).

I was thinking of taking at least 2 levels Monk, then change over to Unarmed Swordsage. But up to level 6, maybe more Monk is so juicy (Even if comparable weak). Also: Unarmored Swordsage gets unarmed progression like a monk, would you guys let that stack? If not, maybe i can just take normal Swordsage and change the attacks somewhat.

Also i don't like him to be a one-trick pony. Some damage, grappling, maybe good AC and saves ALL would be nice. But overall:

Feats: Improved Trip (The throws get rolled like a trip with a +4, that means with imp. trip i get another +4), Also i get (through Powerful Built, or Jotunbred another +4 bonus)

High Strength is needed too, i guess, so we assume it gets the 18
That means i have in my throw-maneuvres a +4 (Maneuvre) +4 (Powerful built) +4 (Improved Trip) +4 (Strength) + 1D20 in an opposed roll. Not to be megalomaniac... but that doesn't seem enough to throw a dragon/titan etc. Even an normal oger has a good chance to stay where it is. Also the reach of the maneuvres in higher levels depend on having rolled a lot higher. Also, how can i round the combat abilities up? Grappling seems like a logical attack form, and can easily boosted with improved grapple at 3rd level, if i am a monk.

So any comments, ideas? But remember: i am bound by: Core+2 books, no dragon magazines or something. All things not in our "chosen books" we have to earn ingame through roleplaying and gm decision.

[snakeman830]

I would go with Unarmed Swordsage 1/Monk 2/Swordsage to finish it off.  Obvioulsy grab Improved Trip at Monk 2.  Forget Jotubrund and just beg an Enlarge Person spell off your friendly wizard.  That way you have one source open.  You *might* be able to get a Polymorph spell from him too at this level for better forms (say, a Rhemoraz?).

18 in Str will help for when you can't be Polymorphed.  If you can be with decent frequency, then I would actually throw it on Wisdom for better class abilities and manuver save DC's.

So, Rhemoraz form will net you +24 (+8 Str, +8 size, +4 ImprovedTrip, +4 manuver) before any Str enhancements (such as Bull's Strength or a Belt of Giant Strength)  I chose a Rhemoraz because it's A. core, B. Huge, C. low HD (anyone capable of casting Polymorph can become one).

[BowenSilverclaw]

A Barbarian dip for Rage paired with the Wolf Berserker feat from Unapproachable East is a decent option as well.

[BruceLeeroy]

If you're limited to 2 books + core, then polymorph is going to be your holy grail. I can't think of another single source that can do so much for tripping/grappling. Savage species would be another book you want: Multigrab, Imp. Multigrab and Fling Enemy are in there. ToB would work just as well, with those Setting Sun throws you were looking at, plus the versatility of any initiator.

Really, most crazy grappling/trip build work because they cherry-pick feats, abilities and random bonuses from a wide variety of sources. Does the MiC count as a book for this purpose?





Nevermind all that shit. I was crazy. Now, I am sane.
The sane advice, the ONLY advice, is obvious.

A motherfucking CHOKER is the answer.

Choker 3/ Ur-Priest 9

Feats of note: Combat Expertise, Imp. Trip, Practiced Spellcaster, Martial Study: Mighty Throw, MS: Devastating Throw. The martial study feats can be replaced with the slippers of the setting sun.

So he doesn't really flower until he can emulate the we-jen spell giant size with a casting of Miracle at 13th. But, up till then he can Divine Power at level 8, Righteous Might at level 9, oh, and did I mention he's a fucking choker?



EDIT: Tshern, goddamnit. You're right, of course. I lied about being sane, too.

Ok, then be a psychic warrior, find a way to get metamorphosis on your list, get metamorphic transfer and use expansion as a choker. There. Throw dragons 'till the cows come home.

[Tshern]

Doesn't qualify for Ur-Priest, not enough skill points.

[Summerstorm]

Hm, i don't think a choker would get approved. Too monstrous, i guess (Also hard to play). I thought about getting a wand of enlarge person and UMD it. Since it is a minute/cl spell, and low level, it should be enough to use in a tight spot. +2 Str - 2 dex and +4 on grapple/trip etc might be worth it. I don't think i can beg our caster for that spell (Really, who prepares 2/3 slots only to help me being insane? *g*) Ah, also our caster is a spirit shaman, i don't even think he can cast something like that. Polymorph is too high level as well.

Losing Jotunbrud/Powerfull build on the other hand is not that fun. It stacks with attempts to grow larger is very nice.

Being a half-ogre or Minotaur or something is not that good. (I play one in another game... and being large is just FULL of problems. I am often fighting squeezed, take space my comrades could use or have trouble keeping up, or getting somewhere. Becoming large on command is much better.

Another good idea is being a lycanthrope bear. But that is a hefty 5HD creature with a +3 LA (natural Lycanthrope). But getting improved grab (claws) +16 str +8 con and such... VERY nice (and the size+ with shift, AND jotunbrud... hmmm). But the maneuvres get delayed a bit then (And i might not get in the game, since my ECL might get too high.

Hm...