Author Topic: Working on an Elan...  (Read 6468 times)

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KellKheraptis

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Working on an Elan...
« on: July 07, 2010, 01:48:11 PM »
An Elan PsyWar 20 at that, and seeing how close this is to the <Executive Title> of Smack series, while keeping with the advantage of being an Elan.

Feats thus far are :
1: Monastic Training, Battle Jump
2: Linked Power
3: Tashalatora
5: Psionic Meditation
6: Raged Manifesting (Dragon material)
8: Psicrystal Affinity
9: Unarmed Natural Strike (Dragon material combining unarmed strike damage with claw damage, don't know it's real name)
11: Psicrystal Containment
12: Invisible Power (Cityscape adaptation for psionics)
14: Rapidstrike (Claws)
15: Metapower (Invisible Power, free recharge!)
17: Power Lunge (might not be possible, can't remember if it requires Power Attack)
18: Reckless Rage
20: Improved Rapidstrike

Variant stacking, trading Flurry of Blows for Rage and increased speed, and trading the barb's version of increased speed for Pounce.

All claw based powers that apply, SoME, Hustle, the usual suspects.

All told, any suggestions on feats/powers to not miss?  And if anyone has the original King/President, that'd be awesome to look over too.  Thanks!

~Kell
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carnivore

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2010, 02:21:16 PM »
monk levels to
determine your AC bonus, flurry of blows attacks, and
unarmed damage from the monk class.

no Monk levels.... No Flurry of Blows, AC bonus, Unarmed damage

 :D



Phaenix

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2010, 02:55:52 PM »
where are your Monk levels...

Kell can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the idea here is that 20 + 0 = 20.

KellKheraptis

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2010, 03:19:56 PM »
where are your Monk levels...

Kell can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the idea here is that 20 + 0 = 20.

Bingo.  Nowhere does Tashalatora state the required presence of Monk levels, thus allowing all the goods with 0 level investment :D  Also, what with the +5 to hit and damage and +100 hp from rage, I imagine the desired th rather apparent on this project (so I'm on another DBZ kick...) :D
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Rymosrac

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2010, 03:45:58 PM »
Indeed. And it's not like that's any more sketchy than variant stacking is anyways.

This is Kell here making a build, it says black hat right on the label.
Shh. My common sense is tingling. . .

nijineko

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2010, 05:43:15 PM »
TASHALATORA

...

Benefit: Your levels in the psionic class you selected
for Monastic Training stack with your monk levels to
determine your AC bonus, flurry of blows attacks, and
unarmed damage from the monk class.

perhaps if one is not receiving those benefits from the monk class, then one cannot receive the benefits.

however, i can vaguely see how one could claim no ac benefit at all, since they don't get wis to ac from monk levels, nor flurry, since they do not have a flurry feature either, but would still get the unarmed damage benefit, as they do have unarmed damage. one out of three isn't bad... or one could take a single level of fist of zuoken and get all the above, if i recall correctly.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 05:46:29 PM by nijineko »
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McPoyo

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2010, 05:47:49 PM »
That's made no sense. The last bolder portion is clearly a reference to the source for ability scaling.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

carnivore

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2010, 05:51:36 PM »



where are your Monk levels...

Kell can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the idea here is that 20 + 0 = 20.

Bingo.  Nowhere does Tashalatora state the required presence of Monk levels, thus allowing all the goods with 0 level investment :D  Also, what with the +5 to hit and damage and +100 hp from rage, I imagine the desired th rather apparent on this project (so I'm on another DBZ kick...) :D

McPoyo

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2010, 05:54:40 PM »
Okay, I can agree with the part about it not advancing ACF'd abilities replacing those original ones. I don't agree that Psychic Warrior 10 with that would equate to anything less than effective monk 10, though. Adding 10 to 0 is still 10.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Rebel7284

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2010, 05:58:58 PM »

This is your interpretation and certainly RAI.
RAW I don't see why it HAS to be interpreted that way.

*shrugs*  Psychic Warriors bore me anyway.
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carnivore

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2010, 05:59:53 PM »
the feat Specifies that you levels of your Psionic Class stack with levels of Monk for certain class feature .... it does not say the levels of the psionic Class Give the Monk Class features ... just that they can be used to progress monk Class features...that you have from your Monk Levels

 :D

Rebel7284

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2010, 07:37:56 PM »
It says neither, it says they stack.  Your BAB also stacks even if one of you classes gives 0 BAB :P  But yeah, the intent is quite clear, I'm just being the devil's (Kell's?) advocate here :)
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

Tonymitsu

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2010, 09:37:46 PM »
I think the problem we have here is the wonky wording on Talashtora feat, namely the last sentence:


Your levels in the psionic class you selected
for Monastic Training stack with your monk levels to
determine your AC bonus, flurry of blows attacks, and
unarmed damage from the monk class.

Note:  Relevant word bolded for relevance.


Now if it had said something sensible, like "your monk levels" or the "AC bonus, flurry of blows attacks, and unarmed damaged you gained from the monk class", then there would be no problem (which I'm pretty sure is the intent of the feat, and how I'd rule it if I were running).

But it doesn't, and thus it is left open to the possible interpretation of the feat granting and advancing those class features even if you never had them to begin with.

This is the only link to the original King of smack that I have that still works.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866038/The_king_of_smack.

Aside from what is in there... other powers I'd say you shouldn't miss:

Ubiquitous Vision (XPH) - For the price of a -4 on saves vs gaze attacks, you now cannot be flanked.
Anticipatory Strike (CPsi) - You have to spend a feat on Expanded Knowledge for this, but if you do you can spend 9 power points to take your turn for the round (or the next round) as an immediate action.  All pisonic characters should have this, IMO.
Reach - Increase your reach by 5 feet.  Stacks nicely with Expansion and other things, and just as much of a no-brainer if it's allowed.

Not exactly a feat but a feature that might be worth considering is Aligned Strike from Complete Champion
It requires a loose interpretation of the rules, since you are required to give up a fighter bonus feat, which technically you have as a psychic warrior, and gain the ability to align your weapon to match either component of your alignment, essentially as an at will, supernatural ability that you can use as a free action.

carnivore

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2010, 10:07:39 PM »
i dont agree... you are taking a single word out of context and changing the meaning...

Your levels in the psionic class you selected
for Monastic Training stack with your monk levels to
determine your AC bonus, flurry of blows attacks, and
unarmed damage from the monk class.


it says you already have Monk levels ... "the" only refers to specific Class features that Monks recieve

 :D

McPoyo

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2010, 10:09:21 PM »
i dont agree... you are taking a single word out of context and changing the meaning...

Your levels in the psionic class you selected
for Monastic Training stack with your monk levels to
determine your AC bonus, flurry of blows attacks, and
unarmed damage from the monk class.


it says you already have Monk levels ... "the" only refers to specific Class features that Monks recieve

 :D
yet monk levels are not in the prereqs, so that interpretation is already wrong.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

A_Shadow_of_Life

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2010, 12:39:52 AM »
What Dragon Magazine is Raged Manifesting from?
:lovefirefox

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Sohala

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2010, 01:02:37 AM »
Can this whole need for monk be solved with a monk belt?
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Azrael

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2010, 02:46:20 PM »
i dont agree... you are taking a single word out of context and changing the meaning...

Your levels in the psionic class you selected
for Monastic Training stack with your monk levels to
determine your AC bonus, flurry of blows attacks, and
unarmed damage from the monk class.


it says you already have Monk levels ... "the" only refers to specific Class features that Monks recieve

 :D
yet monk levels are not in the prereqs, so that interpretation is already wrong.

Does it matter if its in the prereqs or not. It clearly states your monk levels if you don't possess any 'monk levels' then there is nothing to stack, plain and simple.

Can this whole need for monk be solved with a monk belt?

monk's belt doesn't grant monk levels.

McPoyo

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2010, 02:50:16 PM »
i dont agree... you are taking a single word out of context and changing the meaning...

Your levels in the psionic class you selected
for Monastic Training stack with your monk levels to
determine your AC bonus, flurry of blows attacks, and
unarmed damage from the monk class.


it says you already have Monk levels ... "the" only refers to specific Class features that Monks recieve

 :D
yet monk levels are not in the prereqs, so that interpretation is already wrong.

Does it matter if its in the prereqs or not. It clearly states your monk levels if you don't possess any 'monk levels' then there is nothing to stack, plain and simple.

Can this whole need for monk be solved with a monk belt?

monk's belt doesn't grant monk levels.
Actually, your monk levels = 0. Not -.

I point to Magic Vestment as proof on the "Not having any does not equal null" statement.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

LargePrime

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Re: Working on an Elan...
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2010, 03:27:55 PM »
The Bonus ONLY stacks with MONK levels, for the purpose of determining your MONK LEVEL to determine the effect of your MONK CLASS FEATURE!

You are S.O.L if you have no Monk Class Features to add levels to to determine the effect.  Variant Monks or whatever.