Author Topic: Determining the Enemies AC  (Read 2819 times)

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something random

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Determining the Enemies AC
« on: July 05, 2010, 08:37:16 PM »
As most people on this forum are aware for a number of builds the enemies precise AC score can be important tactical information.
Is there any good ways of determining the enemies AC if the GM does not tell you expect hoping you get lucky or waiting until a large number of attack rolls have been made?
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Black Knight

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2010, 01:02:42 AM »
Use Knowledge checks to determine the creature type and learn what normal AC for creatures of that type should be.  Check their Natural Armor bonus.
Then compare to armor that they are wearing vs. what's listed in the MM - if any, and check the gear's quality.  To be magical it has to be of masterwork quality.

If you have Detect Magic running, you'll see what gear, if any is magical.

This will at least give you a minimum AC to base your decisions on.

Not a great idea... but when you really, really, really have to know exactly what the AC is for a foe...  Then you could have the party wizard cast Probe Thoughts.  It's overkill, but it'll get you the information you want if they fail their save.  Plus other goodies, if you have lots of time.

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2010, 01:07:59 AM »
Use my favorite information-gathering spell:

Telekinesis.
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Havok4

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2010, 01:33:41 AM »
Use my favorite information-gathering spell:

Telekinesis.
Indeed, there is no finer way to learn an enemy's AC then thorough field testing.

Bastian

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2010, 01:41:56 AM »
Use my favorite information-gathering spell:

Telekinesis.
Indeed, there is no finer way to learn an enemy's AC then thorough field testing.
As an information gathering method I've always personally preferred a combination of Find City and Speak with Dead.:D

Black Knight

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2010, 02:04:49 AM »
Use my favorite information-gathering spell:

Telekinesis.

 :lmao

Thank goodness none of my players have found the awesomeness that is Telekinesis.
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Runestar

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2010, 06:57:25 AM »
If you have a way to take 10 (or 11) on your attack roll, you can roughly infer what an opponent's AC is.
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Tshern

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2010, 09:22:10 AM »
Use my favorite information-gathering spell:

Telekinesis.
I've driven a few DMs insane with my idea of determining the enchantment bonuses of armours and shields by making a party member wear/use them and then throwing tiny rocks at him by the hundreds. Nice to see I am not alone with these ideas.

But honestly, Knowledge checks are indeed the easiest way to get information like this. Of course it depends on how customised your DMs monsters tend to be.

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Generic_PC

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2010, 11:57:12 AM »
It also depends on your DM. I know that mine would never give an actual value, even if you got a 40 on your knowledge check. He might say something like "You know you'll hit every 3/4 attacks", meaning that its AC is around 5 points higher than my attack bonus, but he'll never say "The gnome has an AC of 29."

Therefore, I'd rely on telekinesis.
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Tshern

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2010, 12:02:28 PM »
Assuming you have the action to spare. If you really have the opportunity to use Telekinesis to determine the AC, you should just surprise the monster with a standard action Save-or-Bunny.

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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2010, 12:21:01 PM »
I normally know a monster's AC within a round of combat passing just by listening to my party's attack rolls and if they hit or not. I know it doesn't help if you go first or need them dead on round 1 but it works if you can pay attention. Highest value that misses and Lowest value that hits is all you need to be able to remember and that will narrow in on it for you.
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skydragonknight

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2010, 06:28:37 PM »
Ironic that there is a benefit to not going first...perhaps there *is* more to strategy than winning initiative...
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Hallack

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2010, 06:46:31 PM »
Yep, knowledge checks along with simple game experience/knowledge is the best ways but as others have mentioned the biggest factor in any method is going be the DM and his/her style of running.

Me in most encounters I'll give ballpark AC to players especially with decent knowledge rolls or if it is something they should generally be able to see based upon equipment.  Very often to simplify and speed up combat I'll just flat out give the AC.  But that's just how I roll  :lmao
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weenog

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2010, 12:09:02 AM »
You need a big stupid fighter with the TWF chain or Flurry of Blows.  Half a dozen attack rolls at varying bonuses in one character's turn can help you pin down the target's AC in a hurry.

Maybe you can summon one.
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the_shadowmind

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2010, 12:32:38 AM »
You need a big stupid fighter with the TWF chain or Flurry of Blows.  Half a dozen attack rolls at varying bonuses in one character's turn can help you pin down the target's AC in a hurry.

Maybe you can summon one.
Monk 20 is an outsider, so you could gate one in, a bit of a waste of a gate spell though.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2010, 02:07:58 AM »
You need a big stupid fighter with the TWF chain or Flurry of Blows.  Half a dozen attack rolls at varying bonuses in one character's turn can help you pin down the target's AC in a hurry.

Maybe you can summon one.
Monk 20 is an outsider, so you could gate one in, a bit of a waste of a gate spell though.
Can't be unique, and I doubt that more than one of them exist.
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weenog

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2010, 02:11:05 AM »
You need a big stupid fighter with the TWF chain or Flurry of Blows.  Half a dozen attack rolls at varying bonuses in one character's turn can help you pin down the target's AC in a hurry.

Maybe you can summon one.
Monk 20 is an outsider, so you could gate one in, a bit of a waste of a gate spell though.
Can't be unique, and I doubt that more than one of them exist.

So gate in a hecatoncheires.  True, the 100 attacks are all at the same attack bonus, but afterward you probably won't care what the target's AC was anymore.
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Tshern

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2010, 04:49:24 AM »
You need a big stupid fighter with the TWF chain or Flurry of Blows.  Half a dozen attack rolls at varying bonuses in one character's turn can help you pin down the target's AC in a hurry.

Maybe you can summon one.
Monk 20 is an outsider, so you could gate one in, a bit of a waste of a gate spell though.
A bit of waste?

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Suzerain

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Re: Determining the Enemies AC
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2010, 04:45:07 PM »
Just have a PsiWar hold onto 2 or more monks called via call weaponry.