Author Topic: Question regarding Polymorph and combat.  (Read 2383 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Axator

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 19
Question regarding Polymorph and combat.
« on: June 30, 2010, 03:02:38 PM »
I know there are numerous threads on which forms are the best for various purposes, but right now I'm only interested in how you make them effective for combat?

Sure you can change into a War Troll, but trolls are usually large or larger meaning there's going to be a problem with weapon size, how do you get around that?

There are forms with multiple natural weapon attacks like dragons, hydras and what have you, but how about when you attack monsters with medium to high damage reduction, that's going to reduce your damage output by a lot, what do you do?

So in short, which are your favorite forms and how do you make them effective?

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Question regarding Polymorph and combat.
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2010, 03:06:10 PM »
Depending on how often you're using it, you might consider buying a weapon sized for your Polymorphed form. If the duration on the Polymorph is long enough (like with a Persisted Draconic Polymorph, for example...) you could also buy larger armor that is appropriately shaped for your altered form. Other magic items should resize automatically. Weapons and armor are the only ones that don't, normally.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Axator

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 19
Re: Question regarding Polymorph and combat.
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2010, 03:08:31 PM »
Depending on how often you're using it, you might consider buying a weapon sized for your Polymorphed form. If the duration on the Polymorph is long enough (like with a Persisted Draconic Polymorph, for example...) you could also buy larger armor that is appropriately shaped for your altered form. Other magic items should resize automatically. Weapons and armor are the only ones that don't, normally.

Really? From my understand things like headbands, rings, cloaks and so on melt into your body when you assume the new form and lose their function? I thought that was spelled out pretty clearly last I checked the Polymorph spell?

Agita

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5465
  • SFT is mai waifu.
Re: Question regarding Polymorph and combat.
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2010, 03:17:47 PM »
Depending on how often you're using it, you might consider buying a weapon sized for your Polymorphed form. If the duration on the Polymorph is long enough (like with a Persisted Draconic Polymorph, for example...) you could also buy larger armor that is appropriately shaped for your altered form. Other magic items should resize automatically. Weapons and armor are the only ones that don't, normally.

Really? From my understand things like headbands, rings, cloaks and so on melt into your body when you assume the new form and lose their function? I thought that was spelled out pretty clearly last I checked the Polymorph spell?
Only if your new form can't wear them. A War Troll is perfectly capable of wearing a Headband of Intelligence, I'd say. The relevant passage isn't part of the Polymorph spell, however, it's in the description of Alter Self, which Polymorph is based on.
Quote from: Alter Self
When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional.

You may be thinking of Wild Shape, which does explicitly spell that out, but that's based on Alternate Form rather than Polymorph.
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

Agita's Awesome Poster Compilation
Lycanthromancer's Awesome Poster Compilation

Axator

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 19
Re: Question regarding Polymorph and combat.
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2010, 03:21:32 PM »
Only if your new form can't wear them. A War Troll is perfectly capable of wearing a Headband of Intelligence, I'd say. The relevant passage isn't part of the Polymorph spell, however, it's in the description of Alter Self, which Polymorph is based on.
Quote from: Alter Self
When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional.

You may be thinking of Wild Shape, which does explicitly spell that out, but that's based on Alternate Form rather than Polymorph.

Doesn't the fact that you change size to large render you incapable of using you "medium sized" headband or whatever? I'm pretty sure my DM would rule that and I'm not sure I could or would disagree with him.

Agita

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5465
  • SFT is mai waifu.
Re: Question regarding Polymorph and combat.
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2010, 03:24:31 PM »
Only if your new form can't wear them. A War Troll is perfectly capable of wearing a Headband of Intelligence, I'd say. The relevant passage isn't part of the Polymorph spell, however, it's in the description of Alter Self, which Polymorph is based on.
Quote from: Alter Self
When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional.

You may be thinking of Wild Shape, which does explicitly spell that out, but that's based on Alternate Form rather than Polymorph.

Doesn't the fact that you change size to large render you incapable of using you "medium sized" headband or whatever? I'm pretty sure my DM would rule that and I'm not sure I could or would disagree with him.
As Phaedrus said, all magical gear except weapons and armor by default changes size with you.
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

Agita's Awesome Poster Compilation
Lycanthromancer's Awesome Poster Compilation

Axator

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 19
Re: Question regarding Polymorph and combat.
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2010, 03:31:33 PM »
Only if your new form can't wear them. A War Troll is perfectly capable of wearing a Headband of Intelligence, I'd say. The relevant passage isn't part of the Polymorph spell, however, it's in the description of Alter Self, which Polymorph is based on.
Quote from: Alter Self
When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional.

You may be thinking of Wild Shape, which does explicitly spell that out, but that's based on Alternate Form rather than Polymorph.

Doesn't the fact that you change size to large render you incapable of using you "medium sized" headband or whatever? I'm pretty sure my DM would rule that and I'm not sure I could or would disagree with him.
As Phaedrus said, all magical gear except weapons and armor by default changes size with you.

Could I persuade you to point me to the book where that is stated? I'm not trying to be an ass here, I just want to be able to show it to my DM next session when I polymorph into a War Troll wearing all my sissy elf wizard's shinies.  ;)

Ithamar

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 959
  • PM me if you're interested in some Arena action!
Re: Question regarding Polymorph and combat.
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2010, 03:36:00 PM »
Size & Magic Items.  From the DMG I believe.
Are you worthy of Ascension?
Always accepting gladiators!  Now with a new and improved rule set!

Agita

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5465
  • SFT is mai waifu.
Re: Question regarding Polymorph and combat.
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2010, 03:39:42 PM »
Only if your new form can't wear them. A War Troll is perfectly capable of wearing a Headband of Intelligence, I'd say. The relevant passage isn't part of the Polymorph spell, however, it's in the description of Alter Self, which Polymorph is based on.
Quote from: Alter Self
When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional.

You may be thinking of Wild Shape, which does explicitly spell that out, but that's based on Alternate Form rather than Polymorph.

Doesn't the fact that you change size to large render you incapable of using you "medium sized" headband or whatever? I'm pretty sure my DM would rule that and I'm not sure I could or would disagree with him.
As Phaedrus said, all magical gear except weapons and armor by default changes size with you.

Could I persuade you to point me to the book where that is stated? I'm not trying to be an ass here, I just want to be able to show it to my DM next session when I polymorph into a War Troll wearing all my sissy elf wizard's shinies.  ;)
Sure, no problem. Off-hand, I can point you to the very DMG, page 213, under the helpfully descriptive header Size and Magic Items.
Quote
Also available online.
It's not the most explicit statement, since it's intended for characters who find magic items, but it's a good start.
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

Agita's Awesome Poster Compilation
Lycanthromancer's Awesome Poster Compilation

Axator

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 19
Re: Question regarding Polymorph and combat.
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2010, 03:56:20 PM »
That's great! Thanks a bunch. :)

Anyway, to get back on topic, does anyone use forms with a lot of natural attacks? How do you get around the DR problem?

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Question regarding Polymorph and combat.
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2010, 03:59:20 PM »
That's great! Thanks a bunch. :)

Anyway, to get back on topic, does anyone use forms with a lot of natural attacks? How do you get around the DR problem?
Amulet of Mighty Fists +1 would beat DR/magic. Otherwise, just don't use a form with natural attacks against something with DR? :P
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Ithamar

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 959
  • PM me if you're interested in some Arena action!
Re: Question regarding Polymorph and combat.
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2010, 04:14:54 PM »
Amulet of Natural Attacks from Savage Species + One of the various weapon enhancements that lets you overcome DR is also an easy way, though sometimes costly.
Are you worthy of Ascension?
Always accepting gladiators!  Now with a new and improved rule set!

Shadowhunter

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1003
Re: Question regarding Polymorph and combat.
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2010, 05:26:00 PM »
A weapon with the Sizing enhancetment would be useful.
Shift it to whichever size needed for your taken shape.
Morphic enhancetment also, though that one might be unnecessary.
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.