Author Topic: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)  (Read 12926 times)

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stenver

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Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« on: June 26, 2010, 07:17:42 PM »
*Can someone please make me a build that gets an insane amount of persistent spells, without nightsticks and infinite loopholes while still being viable for play.

*Also, what class is the best for persisting?

*And finally, what is the best way for a druid to get persistent spells?

Shadowhunter

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2010, 07:31:58 PM »
Cleric 19/Dread Necromancer 1 have two pools of Turn Undead to feed each Extra Turning Feat. There's a start.

Cleric usually. Archivists don't get turn undead, DMM only works on Divine Spells so Dread Necromancer won't like it.
Chameleon only gain a few spells and I'm not too sure they can do that really...
Incantatrix also can do crazy-batshit shenanigans with Persistent.

Beside from dipping 1 level in something that grants Turning, there is a variant druid from a dragon magazine called Wild Reaper or somesuch, which gets turn undead at lvl 12. Can't recall the number though.

Now for the rest of the CO crowd to prove how easily one can do much better than this ;)
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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2010, 07:38:51 PM »
Azurin Cleric (racial sub level)/Dread Necro/Sacred Exorcist can get 3 pools to work with IIRC.
Slap on Sun Domain and RSoP/Disciple of the Sun and that might make 4...
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2010, 07:43:15 PM »
Incantatrix. Get a high enough Spellcraft check, and Persist them all. Including your allies.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

JaronK

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2010, 07:51:01 PM »
*Can someone please make me a build that gets an insane amount of persistent spells, without nightsticks and infinite loopholes while still being viable for play.

The most is Binder 1/Archivist 3/Anima Mage 10/Tainted Sorcerer 1/Tenebrous Apostate 5, using the divine adaptation of Anima Mage.  That's as many as you want, if you bind Naberius.

Quote
*Also, what class is the best for persisting?

Archivist, because with Sacred Exorcist or Tainted Sorcerer they can use persists without spell level increases and they've got access to all the best spells.

JaronK

Shadowhunter

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2010, 07:52:21 PM »
Incantatrix. Get a high enough Spellcraft check, and Persist them all. Including your allies.

To be fair, Metamagic Effect is 3+INT per day and Instant Metamagic is at most 2/day.
But this is otoh probably more spells than the DMM machine can do without nightsticks.
I think.

Hrrm, Azurin Cleric sub. level was news to me.
Sneaky, it explicitly states that it can be used for divine feats.
But RAW though, Channel Incarnum won't be increased by Extra Turn Undead.
It only works like Turn Undead for divine feats, nothing else.
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

rubberduck

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2010, 08:14:23 PM »
spelldancer from magic of faerun can get many many spells as long as you can make the fort save or are able to negate the con damage somehow

it's a pretty nice prc especially for female chars
if you are playing a male char dress him hot pink and call yourself
Gareth Gobulcoque

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Shadowhunter

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2010, 08:17:58 PM »
spelldancer from magic of faerun can get many many spells as long as you can make the fort save or are able to negate the con damage somehow

it's a pretty nice prc especially for female chars
if you are playing a male char dress him hot pink and call yourself
Gareth Gobulcoque



THIS.

Make youself immune to fatigue and constitution damage (or have something like Naberius (vestige from Tome of Magic (Binders))) and spelldancers can literally persist everything you can persist normally.
Occular Spell cheese notwithstanding.
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

rubberduck

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2010, 08:20:48 PM »
you have either the choice of beeing this:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

or this

[spoiler][/spoiler]
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Looking for players? http://spielerzentrale.de/

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Daniel678

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2010, 08:22:49 PM »
If you take the Node Spellcasting and Metanode Spell feats from Underdark you can subtract an amount from the increased metamagic spell level if you are standing near an earth node. This would be very situational except for the fact that you can create your own earth node always be near it through an acorn of far travel.

The amount you can subtract from the spell level depends on how large the earth node is. It unfortunately requires 30 years and a caster level of 30 in order to create a 6th level earth node with Node Genesis but once you have created or found a 6th level earth node you can persist all of your spells for free. (or apply an other combination of metamagics that add +6 to the spell level)

This combo is rather difficult to pull off but is also very powerful. It also allows you to add the node level to your caster level and add some spells to your spells known (including epic spells with an earth node that's level 10+)

Lo77o

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2010, 08:40:45 PM »
Simplest way is to be a cleric of mystra.

All metamagic costs are negated while they are at church, so just buff up with persistet spells at you local cathedral, and go out adventuring.
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snakeman830

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2010, 08:45:54 PM »
Aren't you DMM people forgetting about the all important Leadership?  Get a Cleric 15, Dread necro 1, Heirophant 1 with all feats devoted to Extra Turning and charisma boosted at every opportunity.  Every morning, he transfers all of his Turn Undead attempts to you.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2010, 08:55:02 PM »
It's cheesy, but Master of the Secret Sound (dragon 297) on a Mistling Fey can make a living Secret Sound, which can duplicates any spell effect of ninth level or lower.  Metamagic alters spell slot, but not spell level, after all.  It's going to be extremely hard to meet the requirements, but I think you can still pull that off at level 20.
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Widow

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2010, 02:43:33 AM »
If you take the Node Spellcasting and Metanode Spell feats from Underdark you can subtract an amount from the increased metamagic spell level if you are standing near an earth node. This would be very situational except for the fact that you can create your own earth node always be near it through an acorn of far travel.

The amount you can subtract from the spell level depends on how large the earth node is. It unfortunately requires 30 years and a caster level of 30 in order to create a 6th level earth node with Node Genesis but once you have created or found a 6th level earth node you can persist all of your spells for free. (or apply an other combination of metamagics that add +6 to the spell level)

This combo is rather difficult to pull off but is also very powerful. It also allows you to add the node level to your caster level and add some spells to your spells known (including epic spells with an earth node that's level 10+)


A war wizard of cormyr can apply widen spell a few times a day for free and they can be 100% bigger instead of 50%.  Also Widen Sudden Supernatural ability feat from Tome of Magic also increases a supernatural power area by 100% which can be used in conjunction with the Dweomerkeeper.  If my calculations are not off, at least those can get you a level 2 node at the initial casting and it should get bigger faster.

Also no one has mentioned Easy metamagic from the Dragon compendium Vol. 1 or Practical metamagic from races of the dragon.  Those two feats can lower persistent spell by 2 levels to a 4.

spelldancer from magic of faerun can get many many spells as long as you can make the fort save or are able to negate the con damage somehow

it's a pretty nice prc especially for female chars
if you are playing a male char dress him hot pink and call yourself
Gareth Gobulcoque



THIS.

Make youself immune to fatigue and constitution damage (or have something like Naberius (vestige from Tome of Magic (Binders))) and spelldancers can literally persist everything you can persist normally.
Simplest way is to be a cleric of mystra.

All metamagic costs are negated while they are at church, so just buff up with persistet spells at you local cathedral, and go out adventuring.

LargePrime

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2010, 02:54:57 AM »
Bufficer?  Gold is the only limit.
Metamagic spell completion (11th Level ability) and Minor schema makes it easy.

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2010, 02:02:32 PM »
I just read up on mystra again, and it seems you can just keep an acorn of far travel with you, and you can negate the metamagic cost of one metamagic feat per spell you casts. That would mean that all your buffs can be persisted, and all other spells can be quickened, maximized or twinned or anything else you would like to do. Just make sure you have the feats, and refresh the acorn every so often.
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stenver

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2010, 03:37:07 PM »
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040710a

I dont get it, exactly how does the acorn of far travel negate metamagic cost?

Excellent help otherwise, thanks!

Lo77o

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2010, 04:42:44 PM »
Here is the relevant passage from "Faith and Pantheons"

"Sites dedicated to Mystra are enhanced by the weave to augment spellcasting power. Any spell cast within by her clerics can benefit from one metamagic feat without needing to take up a higher level spell slot; the benefit ends if the recipient leaves the location of the temple."

Temples dedicated to Mystra have courtyards, where among other things you have trees such as oak.

Im surprised no one uses this more often.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2010, 05:15:39 PM »
Incantatrix. Get a high enough Spellcraft check, and Persist them all. Including your allies.

To be fair, Metamagic Effect is 3+INT per day and Instant Metamagic is at most 2/day.
You also have Cooperative Metamagic 3+INT times per day to apply to your allies' spells. Having played in very heavily buffed parties that relied on an Incantatrix to Persist them all, I can say that you'd be fairly hard pressed to even find that many spells that you want to persist.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

LargePrime

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Re: Getting the most persistent spells(3.5)
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2010, 05:42:33 PM »
But we do all agree the artificer has the most possible persistent spells?