Author Topic: Mirror Image, Displacement, Blurred Alacrity, and other types of concealment  (Read 3222 times)

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Hallack

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It seems that this is a bit of a gray area in the rules.  It is at least as far as my group is able to find.

1) Do Mirror Images get the benefit of casters Displacement spell?

2) Does Mirror Images get the benefit of the Swiftblades Blurred Alacrity?

3) Does Mirror Images get concealment if they are within natural darkness or the Darkness spell?
I'm pretty sure this is not so gray and that the answer is yes.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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I'd say yes to all.  Otherwise you could tell which one was real by whether it was blurry or dark or whatever.
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Hallack

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I'd say yes too for games I'm running but one of our other DMs is thinking probably not.

We have been discussing the ins and out of the combos and how and why they would or would not interact so that we can get this stuff ironed out, particularly for the Swiftblade in the party.

So, I guess there is not any concise bits of rules or progression of rules that would make this clear one way or the other?

As an aside this also leads into our discussion of True Seeing NOT getting through the Swiftblades Blurred Alacrity.  There again we are differing on opinion.  Me, Blurred Alacrity is not a Blur effect nor a type of concealment that would be beaten by True Seeing.  Him, not so sure. 
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Havok4

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As an aside this also leads into our discussion of True Seeing NOT getting through the Swiftblades Blurred Alacrity.  There again we are differing on opinion.  Me, Blurred Alacrity is not a Blur effect nor a type of concealment that would be beaten by True Seeing.  Him, not so sure. 

True seeing does explicitly say that it does not negate concealment, and the concealment granted by swiftblade is a nonmagical effect, something that true seeing cannot negate anyway.

Hallack

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As an aside this also leads into our discussion of True Seeing NOT getting through the Swiftblades Blurred Alacrity.  There again we are differing on opinion.  Me, Blurred Alacrity is not a Blur effect nor a type of concealment that would be beaten by True Seeing.  Him, not so sure. 

True seeing does explicitly say that it does not negate concealment, and the concealment granted by swiftblade is a nonmagical effect, something that true seeing cannot negate anyway.

That's what I say too.
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PhaedrusXY

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I'd say yes to all.  Otherwise you could tell which one was real by whether it was blurry or dark or whatever.
Well, not really. It could be an illusion of a blurry guy, but you wouldn't get the 20% miss chance to hit the illusion itself. It's just a blurry image, much like a blurry image on a TV screen. Even if you hit a blurry part of the image, you still hit the TV screen.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Hallack

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I'd say yes to all.  Otherwise you could tell which one was real by whether it was blurry or dark or whatever.
Well, not really. It could be an illusion of a blurry guy, but you wouldn't get the 20% miss chance to hit the illusion itself. It's just a blurry image, much like a blurry image on a TV screen. Even if you hit a blurry part of the image, you still hit the TV screen.

This is the view of the other DM in our group.  In regards to the illusion based concealment I understand where he is coming from.  Just was not sure if somewhere hidden out was a nugget of actual rules defining the situation.

How about the Swiftblade based concealment?
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PhaedrusXY

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In cases 1 and 2, the effect providing concealment is on the person, not the illusion of the person. So in my opinion, neither of them would impose any miss chance at all to someone trying to hit the illusion.

So I'd handle it like this:

1) Roll to see if they randomly hit the actual person with Mirror Image, or one of the illusions.
2a) If they hit an illusion, and they roll high enough to hit its AC, then it's popped.
2b) If they roll to hit the person, then they roll the miss chance of the concealment or whatever.

In the case of Darkness, the Illusions are actually also affected by the Darkness. So they'd get the benefit of concealment as well.


As far as RAW to back this up, you don't need anything other than to look at what each of the effects is targeting. Blur, Displacment, and the Swiftblade ability all affect the caster, not illusions of the caster.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Shadowhunter

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I'd say yes to all.  Otherwise you could tell which one was real by whether it was blurry or dark or whatever.
Well, not really. It could be an illusion of a blurry guy, but you wouldn't get the 20% miss chance to hit the illusion itself. It's just a blurry image, much like a blurry image on a TV screen. Even if you hit a blurry part of the image, you still hit the TV screen.

But if you hit the blurred part of an illusion, you can't be sure the whole thing is an illusion or just the blurred part you hit.
That is, the area you hit could be empty air just beside the true target, but could just as well be empty air just part of an illusion.

However:
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As far as RAW to back this up, you don't need anything other than to look at what each of the effects is targeting. Blur, Displacment, and the Swiftblade ability all affect the caster, not illusions of the caster

This is very true. So by the basic rules, your DM is closer to the mark.
No miss chance for illusions.
It's still damn good though.
11% it's the right one, then 50% on top of that to actually hit.
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[/quote]
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The_Mad_Linguist

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In cases 1 and 2, the effect providing concealment is on the person, not the illusion of the person. So in my opinion, neither of them would impose any miss chance at all to someone trying to hit the illusion.

So I'd handle it like this:

1) Roll to see if they randomly hit the actual person with Mirror Image, or one of the illusions.
2a) If they hit an illusion, and they roll high enough to hit its AC, then it's popped.
2b) If they roll to hit the person, then they roll the miss chance of the concealment or whatever.

In the case of Darkness, the Illusions are actually also affected by the Darkness. So they'd get the benefit of concealment as well.


As far as RAW to back this up, you don't need anything other than to look at what each of the effects is targeting. Blur, Displacment, and the Swiftblade ability all affect the caster, not illusions of the caster.
Quote
If you are invisible  or an attacker shuts his or her eyes, the spell has no effect
seems to indicate that mirror image does get benefits from things which target the caster - otherwise, the invisibility clause would be pointless.
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PhaedrusXY

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seems to indicate that mirror image does get benefits from things which target the caster - otherwise, the invisibility clause would be pointless.
Not really. What's the optical illusion of an invisible guy look like?  :smirk
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]