Author Topic: Red Dragon Slaying  (Read 9347 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

carnivore

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1671
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2010, 07:06:52 PM »
if he can get it allowed it is great .... you are also correct about the amount of damage(vs Adult Red Dragon).... he is looking for Overkill(in case his DM boosts the size or HP of the Dragon) .... in a way that his DM wont expect or be able to disallow

besides.... the advice was only for an individual member ... he stated the others didnt need a lot of advice
Quote
Oh, and the monk is actually a fairly well-built character. Assuming he can hit reliably, he should be able to do 80-ish damage in a round. The fighter should be more along the lines of 100-120 or more, and the rogue is fairly solid as well as far as damage output goes (assuming he hits, anyway).


 :D


SorO_Lost

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2355
  • I'll kill you before you're born.
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2010, 11:23:01 PM »
besides.... the advice was only for an individual member ... he stated the others didnt need a lot of advice
Well there isn't much to give on the others really. Optimizing a rogue is more about triggering SA than boosting it's damage really, it just deals that much per round. If the monk is built well thats skip able and so is the fighter. There just isn't much for a mostly core fighter to choose to do :(
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

skydragonknight

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3297
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2010, 11:30:14 PM »
Fighter: I attempt to Disarm the Dragon.
DM: You can't Disarm a dragon.

Fighter: I attempt to Trip the Dragon.
DM: It's four size categories bigger than you. You fail.

Fighter: I attempt to Bull Rush the Dragon.
DM: It's four size categories bigger than you. You fail.

Fighter: I attempt to Grapple the Dragon.
DM: It's four size categories bigger than you. You fail.

Fighter: ... ... ... I hit it with my pointy stick!
DM: You succeed!

D&D Core Fighters. The options are endless!
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Solo

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2684
  • Solo the Sorcelator, at your service
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2010, 01:10:45 AM »
You left out UMD.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2010, 02:28:53 AM »
besides.... the advice was only for an individual member ... he stated the others didnt need a lot of advice
Well there isn't much to give on the others really. Optimizing a rogue is more about triggering SA than boosting it's damage really, it just deals that much per round.
The per attack per round is probably noteworthy.

Anyway, flinging 15 vials of alchemist's frost (Eberron campaign setting) at him isn't a bad strategy.  Dunno if your DM will ban alchemist's frost - not like it's that broken or anything.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2010, 02:33:13 AM by The_Mad_Linguist »
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Runestar

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 820
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2010, 09:29:23 AM »
Any way of the wizard getting irresistible dance in? May be tricky, since you don't have arcane reach. Sr shouldn't be an issue, does the wizard know assay resistance? Or maybe we will get lucky and the DM decides to try out the xorvintaal template... :p





A clear conscience is the surest sign of a failing memory.

BeholderSlayer

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1258
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2010, 02:06:08 PM »
Sorry for the necro (again), but I figured I'd offer an update on the outcome of this thread. This post might get a little long as I explain what happened, but I hope you find it enjoyable. (PS-the wizard banned enchantment, no irresistable dance)

The encounter ended up being a "chain" of encounters one after the other. We entered the dragon's lair, found a big underground lake of acid with an island of loot on it. We flew, avoiding the island, and went into a passage where we were ambushed by 5 dread wraiths. They almost killed the wizard outright with CON damage. I pulled out one of the Mass Heal scrolls I had purchased, succeeded on my CL check and obliterated them. We then decided to try the island, as it looked like we had nowhere to go. We landed, and were ambushed by a Coin Golem, which was killed but with some damage taken. Immediately after his death, we were attacked by a BLACK dragon.

On the wizard's first turn he cast Forcecage on the black dragon. The DM was pretty miffed. Right after that happened, we were then ambushed by the red. Except, this wasn't any normal red, it was a red dragon ghost. The DM was about to use malevolence on the monk, but then metagamed us and went for the fighter instead. Fighter fails will, jumps in the lake of acid and takes a deep breath of acid. DM ruled he began drowning and then was killed by the acid damage (I almost argued the acid damage should happen first, and then the drowning, but it wouldn't have mattered). I felt bad for the guy, it was his first campaign ever. He had went out and bought what he thought was an awesome dragon-slaying sword, but he never got to use it since he was offed in one round.

The wizard then cast Maze on the dragon, passed SR easily. The DM then said "what's the save on that?" I and the wizard chorused "there isn't one, no save." The DM just about threw a temper tantrum. He was incredibly angry and it showed. I cast Mass Heal again to fix the damage done by the black's breath weapon and the coin golem, hitting the red for half in the process. The dragon's next turn: NATURAL 20 on the INT check! Yeah, right. The DM rolls behind a screen and it was absurdly obvious that he lied, but what are you going to do? Wizard scrolls a Time Stop, and spends his turns to polymorph himself to a gold dragon, cast fly on himself, and Polymorph our rogue into a 12 headed pyrohydra (yeah I know, other creatures not affected yada yada, but the DM didn't argue and I figured if he was going to cheat, I wouldn't say anything). Rogue steps into range, attacks and hits with all 12 heads. Red dragon ghost dies. We deal with the black at our leisure, as it couldn't do anything to us of consequence. I asked my solar to save my fighter buddy and True Resurrect him, so he actually had something to do.  :lmao

After the fight, the DM threw another temper tantrum. I found out later from the wizard, after the DM left, that the DM had been bragging about how he was going to kill us when they went on a dinner run to Taco Bell. He really did not expect us to live, at all. He threw a temper tantrum about D&D in general and how using all these spells was stupid. He had to admit, though, that he had been throwing death effects at us all night and we had survived by pure luck. He has a bit of growing up to do, really.

So there you have it, the story of our triumph. The DM expected a TPK, and we obliterated his dual-dragon encounter in about 3 rounds.
Hi Welcome
[spoiler]
Allow me to welcome you both with my literal words and with an active display of how much you fit in by being tone deaf, dumb, and uncritical of your babbling myself.[/spoiler]

carnivore

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1671
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2010, 02:14:31 PM »
thank you for posting the results of the encounter ... i appreciate the feedback

sorry about your having to deal with such a Poor DM

 :D

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2010, 02:39:50 PM »
Hey, at least he has good taste in templates.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

BeholderSlayer

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1258
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2010, 02:45:41 PM »
Yeah, well...he's the DM again while I hammer out a campaign for them. This time it's even worse. We are stuck playing Everquest tabletop instead of D&D. Basically, it's the MMO on paper. I almost fell asleep last session while in combat. Then again, I was only a level 1 Enchanter with extremely limited spells.

I think my boredom will remain, though. Even mage-type characters seem reduced to spamming the same attack over and over.

I am going to write up some stuff that will knock their socks off. Although, I'm sure the current DM kid will probably get bored because he's not paying attention (again) and threaten to quit if he's not allowed to play some campaign that he's been obsessing over (this happened last time, I was planning to take them to epic levels but he threatened to quit if we didn't start the campaign I talked about in this thread). Of course, if he pulls that again we will tell him to go ahead and quit.
Hi Welcome
[spoiler]
Allow me to welcome you both with my literal words and with an active display of how much you fit in by being tone deaf, dumb, and uncritical of your babbling myself.[/spoiler]

BeholderSlayer

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1258
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2010, 02:47:16 PM »
Hey, at least he has good taste in templates.
Normally I'd agree...but...well...he didn't make the dragon. He only runs published campaigns and virtually never adds anything to them. He definitely was not the one that added the template, it was the author (I don't think he's actually competent enough to know HOW to add a template).
Hi Welcome
[spoiler]
Allow me to welcome you both with my literal words and with an active display of how much you fit in by being tone deaf, dumb, and uncritical of your babbling myself.[/spoiler]

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2010, 03:58:03 PM »
Compared to kevin_video's this guy's nearly a saint.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

BeholderSlayer

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1258
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2010, 04:08:35 PM »
Compared to kevin_video's this guy's nearly a saint.
Can't disagree with that.
Hi Welcome
[spoiler]
Allow me to welcome you both with my literal words and with an active display of how much you fit in by being tone deaf, dumb, and uncritical of your babbling myself.[/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2355
  • I'll kill you before you're born.
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2010, 12:49:17 AM »
Link?
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

altpersona

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2939
  • BG forum Emperor Ad Litem
    • Altpersona.net
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2010, 02:31:50 AM »
bastain, skydragon both of you get 50 adhoc xp.
The goal of power is power. - idk
We are not descended from fearful men. - Murrow

The Final Countdown is now stuck in your head.

Anim-manga sux.


Gavinfoxx

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 822
  • *Forkbark* Wauwau!
    • Email
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2010, 04:14:22 AM »
That was GREAT! The DM bragging to a PLAYER that this is gonna be a TPK? Hehehehe... wow, someone needs to read up on what "cooperative storytelling" is...
BG's other resident furry!

Gunhaven

  • Domesticated Capuchin Monkey
  • **
  • Posts: 116
  • Something clever.
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2010, 05:19:48 AM »
You know, from what I've read there's no way anyone I know could be a worse DM.  Sure, you can't depend on either of them and one of them cares only about the story and will ignore the rules if it's an interesting concept but neither of them have tried to kill us.
My first handbook: Leadership and Army Making  Always a work in process.

Littha

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2155
    • Email
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2010, 09:47:33 AM »
Wow.... well at least if you want your players dead do it properly...


I did once engineer a TPK (level 1 characters vs a evolved shadow) but that was the setting for a ghostwalk campain using those ghost classes.

BeholderSlayer

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1258
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2010, 02:59:51 PM »
You know, from what I've read there's no way anyone I know could be a worse DM.  Sure, you can't depend on either of them and one of them cares only about the story and will ignore the rules if it's an interesting concept but neither of them have tried to kill us.
He thinks it's his JOB to try to kill us. No, I didn't make that up. That is a word for word quote directly from his mouth, which happened when one of the players' girlfriends stopped by the game a while back.

She asked what he was doing behind the screen with a laptop, and he said "I'm the Dungeon Master. I play the monsters and the rest of the world, it's my job to try to kill them. It's basically them against me."
Hi Welcome
[spoiler]
Allow me to welcome you both with my literal words and with an active display of how much you fit in by being tone deaf, dumb, and uncritical of your babbling myself.[/spoiler]

Gavinfoxx

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 822
  • *Forkbark* Wauwau!
    • Email
Re: Red Dragon Slaying
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2010, 03:58:24 PM »
FYI, that's more true in 2nd edition. It is literally a battle of wits of players versus DM.  Go read the Hackmaster Player's Handbook (a hilarious read in general) if you are curious about this attitude, where it EXPLICITLY makes this so for a D&D style game.  But because of the amount of options and the core assumptions behind them in 3rd edition, I don't think this is viable... you would need a more limited set of rules with fewer player options and fewer DM options...  Just tell him, "You know, this isn't 2nd edition AD&D. They threw out the DM vs Player thing a long time ago, and I thought we were playing 3rd edition; you didn't make it clear at game start that you were specifically playing an adversarial game style rather than a cooperative game style, which is the default assumption. Changing this drastically changes the players assumptions about the game and how players are apt to play and see the game."
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 04:03:20 PM by Gavinfoxx »
BG's other resident furry!