optimizing a dual hand-crossbowman

[sir_argenon]

this build is intended to be sorta equilibrium-ish.  wielding dual hand-xbow's with an exotic flair and style.

human targeteer (36 point buy) 1/feat rogue 2/ targeteer 1/ warblade 1/ cobra strike monk 2/ shou disciple 1/ exotic wpn master 2/ shou dis 4/ cloist cleric 1/ tempest 5

feats(2 flaws)
flaw: rapid shot
flaw: precise shot
human: point blk shot
1:xbow sniper
rog 1 bonus: hand xbow focus
3: 2 wpn fight
rog 2 bonus: combat reflex
6: lightning maces
monk 1 bonus: imp unarm strike. dodge
monk 2 bonus: mobility
9: whirling steel strike
shou 2 bonus: spring atk
12: impr 2 wpn
shou 4 bonus: wpn finesse
15: impr critical
cloist cleric bonus: knowledge devotion
18: grtr 2 wpn

his equip will be dual quick loading, aptitude hand crossbows (need suggestions on the rest of the enchantments), monks belt (need more suggestions)

he features the sick lightning maces aptitude trick, then when coupled with blood in the water that means a LOT of attacks.
also because of his aptitude xbows he can then use the whirling steel strike feat to flurry with his xbows.
he gets 1.5 dex to damage.
wis to ac
i took tempest so that i could reduce 2wf penalties, along with getting a free defensive boost.  this build is going to be strong in AC, pumping dex exclusively. along with items..

this is very rough so far, but any suggestions to make him more optimized will be great. all wotc book plus dragon mag that are in crystal keep are allowed... thanks.

[skydragonknight]

So damage is 1.5 Dex and Knowledge Devotion, plus gear? That's a start, but you can do better.

You have crossbow sniper, which is nice...except no sneak attack or skirmish damage to synergize with it. How about trading Tempest for some levels of Scout and Ranger, taking Swift Hunter and Devoted Tracker with the feats you'd save? Pick up Travel Devotion on top of Knowledge Devotion with your Cleric dip.

[Saxony]

It looks good.

Use the Splitting Weapon Ability. It's a +3 ability and makes every arrow/bolt fired from the weapon split into two missiles, doubling the wielder's number of ranged attacks. It is hands down the best ranged weapon special ability.

Here's something you will find relevant: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=332.0;wap2

It's about getting the most attack possible with ranged weapons.

You might want to go heavily into a Tome of Battle class to get Time Stands Still. It's a 9th level strike maneuver from the Diamond Mind discipline (so it requires an IL 17). It allows one to use two full attack options in one round.

You might want to go Thri-Kreen (Expanded Psionics Handbook) and go Multi Weapon Fighting instead of Two Weapon Fighting. They don't get psionic abilities if your DM doesn't like that. They get four arms which can each wield a weapon. With 16 BAB and every Multi Weapon Fighting feat, that's 4 + 9 = 13 attacks as a base. Add on Flurry and stuff like that and the number of attacks will get insane.

[dark_samuari]

What about something akin to this?



Revolver Ocelot
Male Human Rogue 1/Swashbuckler 3/Rogue 2/Fighter 1/Exotic Weapon Master 3/Swashbuckler 10
Size/Type: Medium Humanoid (Human)
Hit Dice: 3d6+3/17d10+17 (136 hp)
Initiative: +6
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (+0 armor, +4 Dex, -1 Flaw, +3 Shield of Blades), 16 touch, 10 flat-footed
Base Attack/Grapple: +19/+19
Attack: Masterwork Hand Crossbow with a Gnome Crossbow Sight +25 ranged (1d4+9/19-20x2; 90ft.)
Full Attack: Masterwork Hand Crossbow with a Gnome Crossbow Sight +25/+20/+15/+10 ranged (1d4+9/19-20x2; 90ft.)
Full Attack (Two-Weapon Fighting & Sneak Attacking): Two Masterwork Hand Crossbows with Gnome Crossbow Sights +23/+23/+18/+13/+8 ranged (1d4+13+8d6+20/19-20x2; 90ft.)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Sneak Attack +8d6
Special Qualities: Poison Use, Shield of Blades (+3), Insightful Strike, Feign Death, Penetrating Strike, Hit-and-Run Tactics, Exotic Weapon Stunt (Close-Quarters Ranged Combat, Ranged Disarm & Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting), Seduction, Grace (+2), Swift & Deadly, Improved Flanking, Lucky (1/day), and Acrobatic Skill Mastery.
Saves: Fort +15; Ref +14; Will +6
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 19, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 12
Skills: Bluff +24, Craft (Poisonmaking) +9, Craft (Weaponsmithing) +14, Gather Information +26, Hide +15, Intimidate +26, Knowledge (Local) +15, Move Silently +9, Perform (Weapon Drill) +21, Sense Motive +5, Sleight of Hand +29, Tumble +27 and Use Magical Device +22.
Skill TricksFeats: Point Blank Shot [1st], Able Learner [Human], Quick Draw [Flaw], Craven [Flaw], Weapon Finesse [Swash1st], Hand Crossbow Focus [3rd], Daring Outlaw [6th], Precise Shot [Fighter1st], Crossbow Sniper [9th], Woodland Archer [12th], Deadeye Shot [15th], and Improved Precise Shot [18th].
Flaws: Noncombatant and Vulnerable.
Languages: Common, Drow Sign Language, Goblin, and Undercommon.
Challenge Rating: 20
Variants Used: Feign Death, Hit-and-Run Tactics, Penetrating Strike, Poison Use, Shield of Blades and Swift & Deadly.
Books used

[Rymosrac]

inb4 Great Crossbow + Splitting + Keen + Blood In The Water + TWF + Lightning Maces + Snap Kick + Aptitude Weapons.

[skydragonknight]

I'd still like to see a little more damage per hit. Or at least some anti-damage reduction thing. Sure Striking weapon property (+1) bypasses all alignment damage properties: put it on some bolts. Combine with various special metal tips to get around everything.

[Saxony]

inb4 Great Crossbow + Splitting + Keen + Blood In The Water + TWF + Lightning Maces + Snap Kick + Aptitude Weapons.

I think that's exactly what the original poster is going for. Good ideas

[snakeman830]

I'd still like to see a little more damage per hit. Or at least some anti-damage reduction thing. Sure Striking weapon property (+1) bypasses all alignment damage properties: put it on some bolts. Combine with various special metal tips to get around everything.

Force.  +2 weapon property, ignore all DR and incorporeal miss chances.

[Rymosrac]

Oh, forgot hand crossbow focus. My bad.

[snakeman830]

Maybe the double-hand crossbow for another attack each? (and an additional -2 penalty each)

[sir_argenon]

thanks for all he suggestions. force ROCKS!! i love splitting, its definitely in. i completely thought that it was bows only, i dunno why. lol. travel devotion (plus a nightstick) is in too. any good idea for the last domain? i was thinking the one that gives extra turning as a bonus, so that could be more travel domain uses.

the revolver build is nice, as is taking more rogue lvls, but im using the FEAT rogue variant and will not get any sneak attack dice, unless i chage the entire build around. i need those feats! also, ranged sneak attack is not very easy to pull off outside of the first round, is it?

im not opposed to removing all of the monk/shou/tempest levels however, so that leaves me 12 to play with.  so any more classes i could fill that with would be great.

even if i take warblade all the way, thats not enough to get all the way to TSS...i think.  but if i did, are there any other maneuvers besides the mongooses that would be useful for a x-bower?

about weapons enhancements, is there anything that does strength damage with a hit?  i was looking at wounding and that seems pretty cool with all of his many many attacks doing con damage..

[Saxony]

even if i take warblade all the way, thats not enough to get all the way to TSS...i think.  but if i did, are there any other maneuvers besides the mongooses that would be useful for a x-bower?

about weapons enhancements, is there anything that does strength damage with a hit?  i was looking at wounding and that seems pretty cool with all of his many many attacks doing con damage..

If you take Targeteer 1/Feat rogue 2/Targeteer 1/ Warblade 16...
...You will have access to 9th level maneuvers(and thus TSS). Remember that 1/2 of all non-martial adept classes grant Initiator Levels.
So Anything 4/ Warblade 16 will have an Initiator Level of 18. You need IL 17 to get 9th level maneuvers. So you're fine.
The limit to getting 9th level maneuvers and dipping as much as possible else where is Anything 6/ Martial Adept 14.

Wounding is indeed nice. Greater Wounding does 2 Con damage per hit and costs a +4 weapon enhancement.

[skydragonknight]

Wounding is indeed nice. Greater Wounding does 2 Con damage per hit and costs a +4 weapon enhancement.

Greater Wounding on the weapon and Wounding on the bolts? 3 Con per hit...

[sir_argenon]

Wounding is indeed nice. Greater Wounding does 2 Con damage per hit and costs a +4 weapon enhancement.

Greater Wounding on the weapon and Wounding on the bolts? 3 Con per hit...

that stacks?

[Rymosrac]

Absolutely.

[skydragonknight]

Different names = different sources. And on separate weapons, just in case something says you can't have both on the same weapon (have never read greater wounding).

[sir_argenon]

nice... where is greater wounding?