Author Topic: A Brace of Wands - Extending Wizard Endurance  (Read 3040 times)

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Squirrelloid

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A Brace of Wands - Extending Wizard Endurance
« on: June 23, 2008, 08:26:30 PM »
General
At mid-high levels at-will powers aren't going to be especially useful at damaging a foe, and the amount of control they supply is rather limited.  Thus, most of the heavy lifting will need to be done by encounter powers and daily powers.  However, 4 encounter powers is probably not enough to see you through combat, meaning you will need to dip into your supply of dailies, and severely limiting your endurance as you may well tap out after 4 encounters.  If you somehow had access, however, to more offensive encounter powers, that endurance could be greatly increased.

Wands provide a metric for increasing your encounter power usage at the cost of burning a daily resource.  However, at low-mid levels this will require a competitive wand to be worthwhile, and thus demand the wand as your primary implement (and with only a single wand, the increase in available daily powers is no more significant than the abilities of other implements, and likely less).  Two powers cause the carrying of backup wands to become worthwhile - Mesmeric Hold and Force Volley - because they supply an additional +4 to hit.

A wizard need not be a wand specialist to benefit from this - her primary implement can continue to be her specialist tool, and she can pull a wand to use its power as needed.  As such, this has general applicability to all wizards.

As the item level for the lowest of these powers is 18, we're honestly talking about this as an epic strategy, and thus only epic characters will be considered.

By a brace of wands, i henceforth mean some sufficient number of backup wands such that all item daily power uses conceivably gained either from milestones or from resting could be funneled through them.

Playing the cash game
Collecting a brace of wands relies on the extreme difference in price between items as you go up in tiers.  As level-appropriate items are quite expensive for your wealth at those levels, you can't afford to build a brace of wands with the best items you could possibly build.  You can, however, afford to build them in a lower tier.  This is why we care about Mesmeric Hold and Force Volley - they make up the difference in tier with an inherent bonus to hit.

A wand of Mesmeric Hold is at least a level 18 item (+4), and thus relatively cheap for a 21st+ level character.  Cheap enough you'll barely notice the dent they make on your pocketbook.  (< .5% of total wealth collected by a 21st level character, to give you some idea.) 

A wand of Force Volley is at least a 23rd level item (+5), and thus pretty cheap for a 26th+ level character.

As both provide a +4 to hit single targets, they more than make up the difference in item bonus between your primary implement and the wand.

The following section looks at exactly how much wealth a character has, but in the context of level 21, with 1.75 million gp collected (and a likely 1.2 million or more in useable gear), the 85k gp for a wand +4 of Mesmeric Hold doesn't seem at all problematic to acquire, but 10 of them may be problematic.  By 26th level you might have a wand or two of Force Volley, but 10 wands of Mesmeric Hold wouldn't be overly burdening (~10% of your wealth).

Expected Wealth per level
all values are in gp
[spoiler]
Level |   Value   |   E(Party)   |   E(Ind)   |  Ind Wealth
1   360      3760      752      752
2   520      5360      1072      1824
3   680      7600      1520      3344
4   840      10480      2096      5440
5   1000      14000      2800      8240
6   1800      18800      3760      12000
7   2600      26800      5360      17360
8   3400      38000      7600      24960
9   4200      52400      10480      35440
10   5000      70000      14000      49440
11   9000      94000      18800      68240
12   13000      134000      26800      95040
13   17000      190000      38000      133040
14   21000      262000      52400      185440
15   25000      350000      70000      255440
16   45000      470000      94000      349440
17   65000      670000      134000      483440
18   85000      950000      190000      673440
19   105000      1310000      262000      935440
20   125000      1750000      350000      1285440
21   225000      2350000      470000      1755440
22   325000      3350000      670000      2425440
23   425000      4750000      950000      3375440
24   525000      6550000      1310000      4685440
25   625000      8750000      1750000      6435440
26   1125000      11750000   2350000      8785440
27   1625000      14250000   2850000      11635440
28   2125000      16250000   3250000      14885440
29   2625000      17750000   3550000      18435440
30   3125000      18750000   3750000      22185440[/spoiler]

Value: Value of a level N item
E(Party): Expected party wealth gained/level
E(Ind): Expected individual wealth gained/level
Ind Wealth: Cumulative individual wealth

Numbers based explicitly on DMG guidelines.  Each level the party collects 4 items of level = party level +1, +2, +3, +4, and cash of item level=party level x2.  Thus we sum the cash values of all those together, and divide by 5 to find individual wealth collected.

Now, we can probably assume some amount of wealth is lost over time because the game incorporates a severe difference engine which acts to reduce party wealth - that is, selling/uncreating items only nets 20% of their value.  However, given the extreme rate at which item values increase, this is unlikely to be a substantial fraction of total wealth - likely less than 4 million of the level 30 character's 22 million gp, assuming the DM actually follows the DMG guidelines and attempts to provide the party with items they will find useful (and doesn't do so at the expense of other items they possess).  The farther away from that wealth total the characters get, the less likely they'll be hitting the presumed power levels of characters against monsters in the MM.  (That the rules makes extreme deviation from those numbers possible, and the extent to which they'll do so is in no way regulated by the rules, is a huge balance problem the game never addresses, and will not be considered further here).

How much endurance?
An epic character receives 3 daily item power uses, +1/milestone.  If we assume an average encounter requires 5 encounter (or better) powers (not counting utilities), it means a character without back-up wands can run 4 encounters in a day.  A character with a brace of wands can instead make *13* under these assumptions.  (4+3 daily item = 7 = 3 milestones = +3 = 10 = 2 more milestones = 12 = 1 more milestone = 13 encounters).

Now, some encounters are going to require more dedicated resource expenditure, and every extra power expended is 1/2 a power not gained, but even under such conditions we're likely talking 7 or 9 encounters instead of 4.  That's a huge difference in encounter endurance.

Generalizing
This tactic can be applied with some success at any level, as an item merely one step lower than your main implement is still reasonably viable, and thus any power could be used at slightly reduced effectiveness.  However, for the full brace effect you will want to be operating 2 steps down, and the difference will become more and more noticeable as that happens.  The +4 ensures that even 2 steps removed (+4 vs. +6 item bonus) is not especially problematic.

Credits
This post owes some debt to TreantMonkLvl20, who made a mention elsewhere about some useful encounter powers a wizard has which have an inherent +4 to hit in the context of wands.  It also owes some debt to the same discussions dithering about what a reasonable expectation of combat length and daily party endurance should be.

Do we have sblocks/hidden text?  How do i use them?  Also, help formatting the table would be nice
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 08:59:48 PM by Squirrelloid »
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Dan2

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Re: A Brace of Wands - Extending Wizard Endurance
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2008, 08:44:07 PM »
What a great idea!

It's not an overly easy read (not terribly easy to follow your math), but it makes sense once you get it.

also [ spoiler][/ spoiler] sans spaces is our hidden text format

[spoiler]see?[/spoiler]

Kudos! :clap

Omen of Peace

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Re: A Brace of Wands - Extending Wizard Endurance
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2008, 10:57:05 PM »
It's an interesting idea, but my impression is that Wands will remain suboptimal.

- You may want to use other items' powers...

- The Ring of Wizardry allows you to regain an encounter attack power after the first milestone: I would pack several of those instead. Then you can use a higher-level encounter power twice - which is likely more powerful than the Wand power. It is a level 21 item - in between the Wands of MH and FV that you mention.

I don't disagree that packing a few wands is a good idea. It is helpful that you pointed out specific powers as good candidates.
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Dan2

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Re: A Brace of Wands - Extending Wizard Endurance
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008, 06:55:06 PM »
On another note, the brace of wands (predictably) becomes much less useful at very high levels (especially 30).

Several paragon paths give you the ability to recharge a power, alleviating some of the need for the brace of wands.

At level 30, both the Demigod and Archmage Epic Destinies grant you the ability to have at least 5 encounter powers per encounter

Demigod gets unlimited Encounter powers, while Archmage gets 5 encounter powers, and the ability to regain two arcane powers (with Arcane Mastery)

Just another thought...

Squirrelloid

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Re: A Brace of Wands - Extending Wizard Endurance
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 09:30:36 PM »
On another note, the brace of wands (predictably) becomes much less useful at very high levels (especially 30).

Several paragon paths give you the ability to recharge a power, alleviating some of the need for the brace of wands.

At level 30, both the Demigod and Archmage Epic Destinies grant you the ability to have at least 5 encounter powers per encounter

Demigod gets unlimited Encounter powers, while Archmage gets 5 encounter powers, and the ability to regain two arcane powers (with Arcane Mastery)

Just another thought...

I certainly agree level 30 alleviates the concern to a large degree, and while planning for level 30 is all well-and-good, it doesn't serve to totally ignore the 9 epic levels leading up to it and what you're going to be doing in that time.  Ie, for most of epic, the wizard (and really everyone) needs a better solution - the wizard at least has one.  (And should he need more than 5, a brace of wands still assists an archmage, and could certainly add choice to a Demigod via retraining after wand crafting).
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Dan2

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Re: A Brace of Wands - Extending Wizard Endurance
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008, 09:42:01 PM »
Absolutely.  It's probably a safe assumption to say that battles at those levels are going to require more than our supposed allotment of encounter-or-better powers as well.

awaken DM golem

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Re: A Brace of Wands - Extending Wizard Endurance
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2008, 05:30:45 PM »

Expected Wealth per level
all values are in gp

Level |   Value   |   E(Party)   |   E(Ind)   |  Ind Wealth
1 ......   360      ............3760      752      752
2 ......   520      ............5360      1072      1824
3 ......   680      ............7600      1520      3344
4 ......   840      ...........10480      2096      5440
5 ......   1000      .........14000      2800      8240
6 ......   1800      .........18800      3760      12000
7 ......   2600      .........26800      5360      17360
8 ......   3400      ..........38000      7600      24960
9 ......   4200      ..........52400      10480      35440
10 .....   5000      ........70000      14000      49440
11 .....   9000      .........94000      18800      68240
12 .....   13000      .....134000      26800      95040
13 .....   17000      .....190000      38000      133040
14 .....    21000      .....262000      52400      185440
15 .....    25000      .....350000      70000      255440
16 .....    45000      .....470000      94000      349440
17 .....   65000      .....670000      134000      483440
18 .....   85000      .....950000      190000      673440
19 .....   105000      .1310000      262000      935440
20 .....   125000      .1750000      350000      1285440
21 .....   225000      .2350000      470000      1755440
22 .....   325000      .3350000      670000      2425440
23 .....    425000      .4750000      950000      3375440
24 .....    525000      .6550000      1310000      4685440
25 .....   625000      .8750000      1750000      6435440
26 .....   1125000      11750000   2350000      8785440
27 .....   1625000      14250000   2850000      11635440
28 .....    2125000      16250000   3250000      14885440
29 .....   2625000      17750000   3550000      18435440
30 .....   3125000      18750000   3750000      22185440

Value: Value of a level N item
E(Party): Expected party wealth gained/level
E(Ind): Expected individual wealth gained/level
Ind Wealth: Cumulative individual wealth

Numbers based explicitly on DMG guidelines.  Each level the party collects 4 items of level = party level +1, +2, +3, +4, and cash of item level=party level x2.  Thus we sum the cash values of all those together, and divide by 5 to find individual wealth collected.
(tried to clean it up a little bit , how does that work ?)

I've been looking for one of these type of tables, but this is based on the Treasure table; there's also the build section where assumed wealth of starting above 1st level = Magic Items of -1, even, and +1 level, and Gold equal to -1 level magic item.
I wonder why the two are different, and/or if actually deliberately confusing ?
Nice work - reference quality.
They had one of these in v3.5e and now there is one in 4E.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 05:35:00 PM by awaken DM golem »

Squirrelloid

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Re: A Brace of Wands - Extending Wizard Endurance
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2008, 06:27:47 PM »
(tried to clean it up a little bit , how does that work ?)

I've been looking for one of these type of tables, but this is based on the Treasure table; there's also the build section where assumed wealth of starting above 1st level = Magic Items of -1, even, and +1 level, and Gold equal to -1 level magic item.
I wonder why the two are different, and/or if actually deliberately confusing ?
Nice work - reference quality.
They had one of these in v3.5e and now there is one in 4E.


Well, the one thing my table doesn't quantify is how much wealth you 'lose' to expenditures (magic items you turned into residuum or sold, or rituals performed).  The real problem being that value is actually impossible to quantify, because its path-dependent (ie, the sequence of events which gets you to level N effects the end value).  Ie, it will depend on campaign, DMing style, and a host of other factors.  To compare two end members, consider the campaign where teh DM uses a random treasure table, and the campaign where the DM explicitly lets players choose the exact items to fit the appropriate parcels.  Those two campaigns end up with vastly different wealth totals at all levels after the first few, because the first will require turning items into cash or residuum to make what is needed, and the second won't.
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awaken DM golem

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Re: A Brace of Wands - Extending Wizard Endurance
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2008, 06:44:11 PM »
Yeah, the p.124 version counts on hving survived to that point for the reasons you gave. I'd only add in the occasional Rogue/Thief dipping his/its' hand in your cookie jar.

Nother thing that crossed my mind(s), is the Lich Ritual(s) cost more moolah than is available to any character at 14th level.
Furthermore, Lich can be done at 11th level, but the cash ain't anywhere near enough. Residuum doesn't help either.
I resolve this by saying the Ritual requires the use of Magic Items, which are consumed in the Ritual. That's the only way it's do-able. Gotta love making stuff up.

Nother thing ... NPCs can have any number of treasure values, so how are they equiped? DM makes stuff up.
Great.