Author Topic: Shapechange and Templates  (Read 1472 times)

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Tyger

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Shapechange and Templates
« on: June 08, 2010, 12:18:15 PM »
Good day all you brilliant gameologists.  I come to you with my very first post here (long time lurker, first time poster) as a DM in dire need of some assistance.  Our group has decided to play a level 20 one off, with very high powered characters (think an Evil subtype Tainted Scholar).

The one area that I am really having issues with is the spell Shapechange.  Its never come up before, as we've never hit a level sufficient to cast it.  But the fact that it changes your types (and arguably subtypes) is a bit problematic.

With the aforementioned (Evil) Tainted Scholar - he's also a Half-Fiend.  When he casts Shapechange, it would appear that he loses his template (as he can't turn into a Half-Fiend Whatever) which messes with spells memorized, spell points (we're using the UA rules), etc.  But he also loses the (Evil) subtype, which means his Taint suddenly manifests, probably at sufficiently high levels to kill him instantly.

One of the other characters is a Spell Stitched Lich.  Ditto the same problems.  If he turns into a Dragon, he loses the lich template, which messes with stats, and effects the same things as the others.  He also loses his spell stitching.  And what happens should he die while shapechanged?  The spell indicates that you revert to your original form upon death, but he actually died as a <fill in the blank creature> and not as a lich.  Is there any reason why his phylactery would not engage there?

So... help!  Please!  I don't want to ban the spell as we really want to have some fun with high powered stuff (most of our games / campaigns end in the level 10-12 range) but I am trying, as much as possible, to stick to RAW.  We've put some houserules in place, so I have no issues HRing this too, but would like to know what may have worked in some of your games.

TL;DR version:

How do you deal with creatures that have templates when they use the spell Shapechange?
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OblivionSmurf83

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Re: Shapechange and Templates
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2010, 01:22:44 PM »
If you've got no problems with house rules, surely you can just house rule that a creature with a template retains that template when casting a Polymorphesque spell.

Rules wise, Wild Shape does not change your type, so a Planar Shepherd would do fine here.

Talore

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Re: Shapechange and Templates
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2010, 03:17:17 PM »
Or, you may have to inform your players that using the (arguably) most broken spell in D&D would be unwise. RAW they're going to get screwed from Taint, unless I'm mistaken.
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Tenebrous Apostate

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Re: Shapechange and Templates
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2010, 08:30:27 PM »
Tell them to transform to undead forms of the creatures they like (I don't know if you can transform into something templated with shapechange but...) or allow them to keep their tempaltes especialy if they can be aplied to the new form. also the ability bonuses from templates are inherited so they stick to the creature since he is not acctualy loosing the template
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