The Bard's Handbook

[Solo]

I have a Core Archery Bard build.

[Cuindless]

That prestige doesn't advance bardic music, unless i'm mistaken. And you can buy that +5 inherent bonus to cha.

Good point. It advances spellcasting but not bardic music. It makes the build more of a spontaneous spellcaster build with bardic aspects than a pure bard build. What do you think of Bard6/LyricThaumaturge2/Virtuoso2/SublimeChord2/Virtuoso8?

[Endarire]

A Bard can do well as a gish.  My Dragonborn LA0 Aasimar Bard4/Crusader1/Marshal1/Jade Phoenix Mage1 buffs the group with +4 Inspire Courage and probably does the most damage per round of the group.  (The Dragonborn dive attack accounts for a lot!)  Also, Martial Spirit means enemy squealing means party healing.

Once I start using Arcane Wrath (spend a spell slot for +d10 damage/spell level and +4 accuracy), things will increase.  I don't expect to need it yet.

[Dictum Mortuum]

Good point. It advances spellcasting but not bardic music. It makes the build more of a spontaneous spellcaster build with bardic aspects than a pure bard build. What do you think of Bard6/LyricThaumaturge2/Virtuoso2/SublimeChord2/Virtuoso8?

Why do you want Lyric Thaumaturge that bad? With those two levels you gain a 2nd level spell and captivating melody. On the other hand you lose 4 skill points (not counting entry requirements), you stay two bardic music levels behind (you gain the per day music effects, but not the actual levels) and you lose an additional point of BAB. It's ok, but it's just that.

Bard 8/Virtuoso 2/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso 8 is better imo.

A Bard can do well as a gish.  My Dragonborn LA0 Aasimar Bard4/Crusader1/Marshal1/Jade Phoenix Mage1 buffs the group with +4 Inspire Courage and probably does the most damage per round of the group.  (The Dragonborn dive attack accounts for a lot!)  Also, Martial Spirit means enemy squealing means party healing.

Once I start using Arcane Wrath (spend a spell slot for +d10 damage/spell level and +4 accuracy), things will increase.  I don't expect to need it yet.

Yeah, crusader is an awesome dip for a bard. I don't know about arcane wrath (what is this and where i can find it ?), but a single crusader dip can work wonders.

[Cuindless]

Why do you want Lyric Thaumaturge that bad?

Because I overvalue magic?

With those two levels you gain a 2nd level spell and captivating melody. On the other hand you lose 4 skill points (not counting entry requirements), you stay two bardic music levels behind (you gain the per day music effects, but not the actual levels) and you lose an additional point of BAB. It's ok, but it's just that.

Bard 8/Virtuoso 2/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso 8 is better imo.

As usual, you make very valid points regarding optimization. I have a running problem of overlooking other points of an arcane caster in order to improve their spellcasting ability by even a fraction. It's gotten to the point where my DMs have said, "Just play a wizard, man..." For optimizing bardic music, what do you think of 2 levels of Seeker of the Song in order to net the "Combine Songs" ability? You could Inspire Courage and Heroics at the same time, but you lose two levels of the bardic spellcasting progression. It's made up for later by full Sublime Chord progression, but it might still not be worth it. Thoughts?

[the_shadowmind]

I think the item section needs expanding.
Items like the Masterwork instruments in the Compete Adventure. The Badge of Valor in the Magic Item Compendium, and other items I don't know about.

[cru]

I have a Core Archery Bard build.

very nice! can bard spells benefit from silent spell?

[Dictum Mortuum]

For optimizing bardic music, what do you think of 2 levels of Seeker of the Song in order to net the "Combine Songs" ability? You could Inspire Courage and Heroics at the same time, but you lose two levels of the bardic spellcasting progression. It's made up for later by full Sublime Chord progression, but it might still not be worth it. Thoughts?

I think you just need the lingering song feat and you're set. Buy a belt of battle or use celerity somehow. Start singing and then stop. Start another song right after. Stop singing whenever you feel like it. Both songs affect your teammates for at least a minute. Unless you really want a seeker of the song music.

I think the item section needs expanding.
Items like the Masterwork instruments in the Compete Adventure. The Badge of Valor in the Magic Item Compendium, and other items I don't know about.

It's not finished yet, should be obvious.

[Solo]

very nice! can bard spells benefit from silent spell?

No.

[Cuindless]

I think you just need the lingering song feat and you're set. Buy a belt of battle or use celerity somehow. Start singing and then stop. Start another song right after. Stop singing whenever you feel like it. Both songs affect your teammates for at least a minute. Unless you really want a seeker of the song music.

I wasn't sure if it was worth it or not. On the surface being able to start/maintain two songs at once seems like a great benefit, but at the cost of 2 spellcaster levels it doesn't seem that powerful. Besides, what Seeker Songs do you get by level 2? Song of the Flame? 6d6 damage? Please... The bonus to AC and fire saves isn't really that good by level 7 either. It's too bad. Bards just don't get enough love in the splatbooks.

[ninjarabbit]

Devoted performer and Initate of Milil should be mentioned for bardadin builds.

[Cuindless]

What's the general consensus on Troubadour of Stars from BoED? What about Heartfire Fanner, War Chanter or World Speaker?

[BowenSilverclaw]

Heartfire Fanner is awesome. I mean, more feats for your warrior buddies? Fuck yeah...

Heck, IIRC you can even go in without Bard levels (maybe some Marshal and Mythic Exemplar?) and still get some decent IC going.

[Cuindless]

Heartfire Fanner is awesome. I mean, more feats for your warrior buddies? Fuck yeah...

Heck, IIRC you can even go in without Bard levels (maybe some Marshal and Mythic Exemplar?) and still get some decent IC going.

You'd need 1st level arcane casting from somewhere.

Looking it over, it does seem pretty awesome. Bardic music progression, spellcasting progression and giving feats to allies? That's really awesome. The downside is 2 wasted feats (Negotiator and Skill Focus: Perform? Yeucch!). I wonder if you can fit all 5 levels into a good build with Bard, Sublime Chord and Virtuoso...

[Lycanthromancer]

The Subsonics feat is extremely useful, whether it allows your spells and bardic music to be used while silenced or not.

Some bardic music (such as Inspire Courage, which is the best one) is a free action to maintain once you've started, and some of them (again, like Inspire Courage) can last all day so long as you spend a free action each round to maintain them. A good way to extend your uses of inspirational boost and your badge of valor is to use, say, Inspire Courage with Perform (Oration) so you can function without an instrument, use them both just prior to spending a standard action boosting your allies, then use Subsonics to maintain it until you absolutely must switch to another song or to cast a spell.

Huzzah!

[snakeman830]

Perform (Oratory) and recite the epics of old.  That is an excellent way to justify keeping the "song" up all day.

[Lycanthromancer]

Perform (Oratory) and recite the epics of old.  That is an excellent way to justify keeping the "song" up all day.

That's okay, except when your party doesn't necessarily want to listen to you recite doggerel all day long (or you're wanting to be quiet, such as at night, or when you're traveling through enemy territory, or when you're in a dungeon sneaking past guardians, and whatnot).

[the_shadowmind]

It is minor but there is the Heward's Hall legendary site in Complete Scoundrel, requires 10 perform ranks, and "costs" 500gp, for  skill focus(perform) or if already have that skill focus, any bardic music feat that he meets to prerequisites for.

[Jopustopin]

Favorite Bard Feat: Combat Panache PHB II

[gorfnad]

Some bard builds I like.
Bard 6/ Crusader 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 8
Bard 7/ Fighter 1/ Arcane Archer 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Scared Exorcist 3
Bard 7/ Mindbender 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Mystic Theurge 8
Bard 7/ Dirgesinger 2/ Pale Master 1/ Sublime Chord 1/ Pale Master 9 (or Sublime Chord 2/ Pale Master 8)
Bard 4/ Druid 1/ Green Whisperer 3/ Spelldancer 2/ Sublime Chord 1/ Fochlucan Lyrist 9 (or Sublime Chord 2/ Fochlucan Lyrist 8)